Innegra question

[PonoBill]

It's going to need a Snopes-style true/false flag if you start with projection. Anyone who has had math past the tenth grade is going to have a problem with that one.

[SUPeter]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I just purchased some 7.8 oz Basalt/Inegra twill for a wingfoil board I'm doing. Impulse buy?  Maybe? 
I plan on laying Inegra direct on blank then covering with 4 oz glass. First off, I was thinking of basting the micro balloon sealed blank with epoxy resin.  Let it get tacky.  Lay the Inegra down, get it well positioned and flat, then, without adding extra resin, apply peel ply, breather/bleeder and put it in a vacuum bag.  Once cured, and tacked down hard, take it out of bag then add 4 oz glass and squeegee remaining resin into the somewhat dry Basalt/Inegra cloth and glass. Possibly even vacuum bag again or not.
Is this stupid?  I'd much rather be told by someone else than discover this truth on my own.  Thanks

[Dwight (DW)]

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I just purchased some 7.8 oz Basalt/Inegra twill for a wingfoil board I'm doing. Impulse buy?  Maybe? 
I plan on laying Inegra direct on blank then covering with 4 oz glass. First off, I was thinking of basting the micro balloon sealed blank with epoxy resin.  Let it get tacky.  Lay the Inegra down, get it well positioned and flat, then, without adding extra resin, apply peel ply, breather/bleeder and put it in a vacuum bag.  Once cured, and tacked down hard, take it out of bag then add 4 oz glass and squeegee remaining resin into the somewhat dry Basalt/Inegra cloth and glass. Possibly even vacuum bag again or not.
Is this stupid?  I'd much rather be told by someone else than discover this truth on my own.  Thanks

It's going to be a heavy board, unless doing 1# EPS. Innegra is usually 2 oz or 4 oz in boards.
Don't seal the blank. If vacuum bagging, and using a wet out table, you don't need to. Adding weight for no reason. Using a wet out table will help get the fiber to resin ratio ideal with that heavy cloth. If needed, to help the laps stick, baste the EPS on the rails only.

Your idea will create a dry lam and a disaster.

[SUPeter]

Thanks DW,
I appreciate the advice.  I'll be able to cancel the 7.8 oz Inegra/basalt twill.  I will look for some 2 or 4 oz but am liking the idea of an Inegra/basalt twill., under 4 oz glass.

[surfcowboy]

My intuitioand limited experience says bag it all in one go. I can't think of a reason why.

I may never lam the regular way again. So much less sanding.

[SUS4Life]

Does anyone know any online supplier or local(SoCal) for 2 or 4 oz innegra? 
I'm been thinking about using it for many years now and I'm building up a foil board.  I have bunch of 2mm cork sandwich material  and 2oz FG.  Thinking about using as sandwich construction with 2oz FG inside, then cork, innegra then 2x2oz FG on the outside.  I assuming i still need to cap the foil box area with couple layers of cf.

[Mario_Wings]

With Innegra, I was under the impression that it was best to always put it in between two layers of carbon or glass fibre.

Did Dwight say it works well between foam and fibre also?

I have some 2onz Innegra that I have had for ages and am about to use it in a first wing board build so curious about best approach.

[jondrums]

is anyone doing resin infusion with innegra/carbon?  I would have thought that's the way to get it perfect

[fumaster]

Does anyone know any online supplier or local(SoCal) for 2 or 4 oz innegra? 
I'm been thinking about using it for many years now and I'm building up a foil board.  I have bunch of 2mm cork sandwich material  and 2oz FG.  Thinking about using as sandwich construction with 2oz FG inside, then cork, innegra then 2x2oz FG on the outside.  I assuming i still need to cap the foil box area with couple layers of cf.

I made a SUP foilboard using a plain weave carbon/innegra purchased from Graphite Master in Los Angeles. Attached is link to their catalog. Wet table carbon/innegra cloth and vacuum bagged bottom. Bamboo veneer deck, also bagged. Topped 4 oz fiberglass over total board.

https://graphitemaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/GRAPHITE-MASTER-Catalog-SURF-DNA-March-2018_High-Res.pdf

[surfcowboy]

Nice work, man.

[SUPeter]

Just a word or two about Innegra. 

While making my way through some rather large, sharp edged, barnacle and rockweed covered boulders I found my leg caught in a hole which, if I had fallen left or right, my lower leg would likely have snapped.  I had only one option, toss my brand new board to the side and use my hands to prevent bodily damage.  My leg did not suffer but I felt much pain, for my board.  Damn, only the second time in the water.  I picked up the, most likely damaged board,  and amidst some curious swear words, made my way into the deeper water to perform a visual inspection.   I looked, and looked some more but could not find a hint of damage.  I looked again.  Nothing.  This Innegra/Carbon 4.8 oz twill is rugged shit.  I do believe most of the hits were on the doubled up lap area near the upper deck rail but not all.  I'm sold. 

[blackeye]

is anyone doing resin infusion with innegra/carbon?  I would have thought that's the way to get it perfect

I'm intrigued by infusion as well, and I asked that half of the question some years ago. The reply was that the voids in the EPS will soak up resin (of course! as it should!) so that is wasted resin and useless weight. Now someone earlier mentioned sealing the foam, and if that was perfect, then one could theoretically do an infusion. The reduction in resin weight might offset the sealing material weight. I think in practice this wouldn't work at all.

It should work if you were building a composite hollow board in a mould or flat panels for subsequent secondary bonding.

[Surfside]

I own one of his infused surfboards. Awesome! No foil boards that I know of.
http://corevaccomposites.com/about/

[PonoBill]

I've made some non-surfing components with infusion. the big problem is how much stuff you throw away. Even relatively simple builds fill a trashcan. It makes traditional vacuum bagging, where you trash peel ply, barrier, breather, release film, and possibly the hose to the resin trap, seem downright frugal. Since I adopted DW's table wetting approach I haven't considered using either infusion or traditional bagging. With properly table-wetted material all I need is peel ply and a bunch of paper towels for breather. Light, simple, better incorporation of the layers, and a good mechanical bond to the unsealed EPS.  It's hard to improve on that.

I have no idea what 7.8-ounce innegra would actually be for, but I'd put that aside and get some 2 ounce. I doubt there'd be any difference in strength and a big difference in weight.

[blackeye]

It makes traditional vacuum bagging, where you trash peel ply, barrier, breather, release film, and possibly the hose to the resin trap, seem downright frugal. .... With properly table-wetted material all I need is peel ply and a bunch of paper towels for breather.

Don't forget your plastic sheet on the wet out table. A flow system for infusion replaces breather layers, although hard to say they're equivalent and therefore not really an even swap. Net addition for infusion is the re-useable spiral hose.

People are simplifying infusion as well. One system is to cut grooves in the core material to act as flow channels, and this extra surface area helps with core/fibre adhesion. This does away with most of the flow mat. Easy enough on thicker hulled sailboats, tough to do on thin cored boards admittedly. Also, peel ply would only be necessary where secondary bonding is anticipated. I know it leaves a handy surface for finishing coats, but one of its purposes is to successfully pull away the outer bagging materials, in particular the fibrous breather, and that is not as necessary with infusion.

I'm saying all this so as to not dismiss infusion out of hand. Despite that, for repairs I now use pre-wetted material and heavy sand bags in place of vacuum for clamping.