twin-fins-or-more-on-a-race-board/so it begins

[PonoBill]

Totally unsexy, though I actually learned it from watching Connor dink around back when he was about twelve. It's my go-to maneuver both for turns and steering on non-rudder boards. It can be kind of tricky when it's bumpy, but it's a lot easier than trying to lighten the nose. But all the real racers have their version of a buoy turn, usually executed right at the buoy with great precision. Mush faster than the slow curve of a cross bow turn, but take a lot more skill and better balance. We have a bunch of buoys out in Nichols basin for practicing, and I go out and make a fool of myself every so often. I don't think I've improved a lick, but it's kind of fun in a masochistic way.

[Luc Benac]

The cross bow pivot turn just hasn't been deemed "sexy" by the elites.

Might be of interest to other newbies like me.

Here is an intro into 5 turns to learn for winter.
Backstroke-Forward Stroke Turn
Lean Turn
Cross Bow Turn
Pivot Turn
> Cross Bow Pivot Turn <


http://www.supthemag.com/features/skills/video-turn-sup-like-pro/?utm_content=sf37959866&utm_medium=spredfast&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=SUP+Magazine&sf37959866=1#YPoJwy7p8zhiRQt3.97

[Luc Benac]

I don't think I've improved a lick, but it's kind of fun in a masochistic way.

Not to say very refreshing :-)

[jsupsocal]

The cross bow pivot turn just hasn't been deemed "sexy" by the elites.

Might be of interest to other newbies like me.

Here is an intro into 5 turns to learn for winter.
Backstroke-Forward Stroke Turn
Lean Turn
Cross Bow Turn


Luc... this is a great video by a master. I have taken a clinic with Anthony.. and the turn drills work if practiced. Anthony preaches using the right turn for the circumstances and/or conditions, and by no means discredits the merits of the cross bow turn or the even more challenging backside cross bow....
Pivot Turn
> Cross Bow Pivot Turn <


http://www.supthemag.com/features/skills/video-turn-sup-like-pro/?utm_content=sf37959866&utm_medium=spredfast&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=SUP+Magazine&sf37959866=1#YPoJwy7p8zhiRQt3.97

[Larry Allison]

Picked up my Ron House Coastal Cruiser today from Larry, with a fresh set of ProBox + Triple delight fins.
The set up looks killer, and workmanship is top notch.  I was anxious to get it in the water, so went directly to my usual spot in Torrance Beach, where I paddle up/down the beach breaks and around the peninsula, surfing sand bars and reefs.
1-2 ft swell, 5 knot winds, and some surface texture today.

My first impression upon hopping up on my board was "WOW"!!  This thing is super stable.  Much more so than with any previous single fin on this same board.  The dramatic increase in stability made my board feel like it was 1-2" wider!! I previously paddled this board with the stock Riviera "SR" fin, Gladiator Hybrid, and Ninja single fins.  The current Triple Delight felt rock solid in the surf zone and light chop.  Tracking was straight and true also.

Paddled into a few waves, and the 12'6" responded confidently.  Coming off the bottom turn, the board shot back up the face, and the fins locked into the upper 1/3 of the wave face, with no slippage.  Dang....this is cool!!
Couldn't resist paddling back out and repeating same scenario:)

Bonus: Kelp shedding is a non-issue with these shorter, and raked fins.
Our rocky coastline is heavily surrounded by thick mats of kelp.  The fins skimmed over the carpet with no hiccups.

Thanks Larry--this Triple Delight set up is perfect!!!!

Amazing after reading some of the comments here most don't understand what a Ventral purpose really is, here is a post from a guy that I did his coastal runner no Ventral. Let me explain something SIMPLE! It you have alot of paddle engagement to move your board then you need a Ventral. If your board is moving with LITTLE to NO PADDLE engagement by the aid of Mother Nature pushing you then you can opt out the Ventral for that condition. A Ventral is not the same as a Dagger forward fin or Canard Fin. You guys take one element of my concept and bet it to death in you cyber brain by never trying it and making a conclusion cracks me up. This thread has alot of good information with other people who tried the multiple fins that answer your comments.

[Eagle]

"But all the real racers have their version of a buoy turn, usually executed right at the buoy with great precision. Mush faster than the slow curve of a cross bow turn, but take a lot more skill and better balance."  Yep.  Should learn how to do that anyways as always good to improve your skill set.

"If your board is moving with LITTLE to NO PADDLE engagement by the aid of Mother Nature pushing you then you can opt out the Ventral for that condition."  Yep also.

[Larry Allison]

The myth about surfing with a Ventral, LOL. Some may not like it but the bottom line is that alot of you over look the options with a board running over 2000 dollars. I got a call today from the owner of Paddleboard Specialists. He told me 2 days ago a customer came in and bought a production Blackfish with Allison Probox Twin and Ventral along with a Whiplash, yes 2 boards. 2 days later the customer brought back the Whiplash and when asked why the customer stated, he GPS both the Whiplash and Blackfish with all the fins and seen no different in his GPS numbers it made no sense to have 2 boards for flatwater. The customer was stoked with the range and feel of the blackfish to work in both flat and Open ocean with multiple fins. With the right fin and placement these are the results, but with the wrong fins and wrong placement and Canted fins your Raceboard will SUCK. Don't blame me for the manufacture's lack of understanding and doing things wrong or expanding off of me and calling it their design to make more money, because that will happen as momentment keeps going like it is. Which is why I say beware of everyone now being a Fin Designer, LOL!
Anyway back to the feel of a Ventral 16 year old Hansen catching a Wave with Ventral and Dave B. catching the wave and making a bouey turn with Ventral assist.

[BroDog]

Picked up my Ron House Coastal Cruiser today from Larry, with a fresh set of ProBox + Triple delight fins.
The set up looks killer, and workmanship is top notch.  I was anxious to get it in the water, so went directly to my usual spot in Torrance Beach, where I paddle up/down the beach breaks and around the peninsula, surfing sand bars and reefs.
1-2 ft swell, 5 knot winds, and some surface texture today.

My first impression upon hopping up on my board was "WOW"!!  This thing is super stable.  Much more so than with any previous single fin on this same board.  The dramatic increase in stability made my board feel like it was 1-2" wider!! I previously paddled this board with the stock Riviera "SR" fin, Gladiator Hybrid, and Ninja single fins.  The current Triple Delight felt rock solid in the surf zone and light chop.  Tracking was straight and true also.

Paddled into a few waves, and the 12'6" responded confidently.  Coming off the bottom turn, the board shot back up the face, and the fins locked into the upper 1/3 of the wave face, with no slippage.  Dang....this is cool!!
Couldn't resist paddling back out and repeating same scenario:)

Bonus: Kelp shedding is a non-issue with these shorter, and raked fins.
Our rocky coastline is heavily surrounded by thick mats of kelp.  The fins skimmed over the carpet with no hiccups.

Thanks Larry--this Triple Delight set up is perfect!!!!

Amazing after reading some of the comments here most don't understand what a Ventral purpose really is, here is a post from a guy that I did his coastal runner no Ventral. Let me explain something SIMPLE! It you have alot of paddle engagement to move your board then you need a Ventral. If your board is moving with LITTLE to NO PADDLE engagement by the aid of Mother Nature pushing you then you can opt out the Ventral for that condition. A Ventral is not the same as a Dagger forward fin or Canard Fin. You guys take one element of my concept and bet it to death in you cyber brain by never trying it and making a conclusion cracks me up. This thread has alot of good information with other people who tried the multiple fins that answer your comments.

I had the pleasure to try this Costal Cruiser 3 years ago when ProBox-Larry retro-fitted it to the 4 fin system.  We went to Cabrillo Beach in San Pedro, CA, which is usually unpredictable in it's water conditions. That morning the wind kicked up some pretty nasty chop and I was reluctant to be the test pilot.  To my surprise, the board was extremely stable and fast in the rough conditions.   In fact, the Costal Cruiser was quite enjoyable to paddle.  Going downwind was quick and zippy, while the upwind paddle was effortless.  I made a note to myself to pick up a costal cruiser if I ever had an opportunity to find a used one. 

[BroDog]

Found a pic of me on the costal cruiser. Really loved that board after ProBox improved the fin-age.

[Larry Allison]

Found a pic of me on the costal cruiser. Really loved that board after ProBox improved the fin-age.

Found another pic of that same day with a wider angle of the conditions Brodog

[TallDude]

Larry,
I'm considering doing a remodel on the bottom of this older Richmond. Adding some chines, flattening the bottom some and adding bevel at the rail stabilize the board. What multi fin set-up would you recommend for this board?

[Larry Allison]

Larry,
I'm considering doing a remodel on the bottom of this older Richmond. Adding some chines, flattening the bottom some and adding bevel at the rail stabilize the board. What multi fin set-up would you recommend for this board?

Nice to see you share in my friend. That board would run the same set up as Dale Chapman installed in this board for Mick Di Betta. Small Ventral front with 4by 10 Elliptical Twins and 6 Inch Stinger Kick. First need to know the width over the center of your fin box from rail to rail. The board from Mick was 30 inches from the tail.

[Kieranrsup]

Interesting.
We get very, very varied conditions where I paddle. Very rarely do we get Hawaii like straight runs, you are usually cutting one way or the other and dealing with lots of refraction from cliffs.
We train and do course races in very, very varied conditions too from dead flat water to side swell/chop , boat wash to upwind grind.
I wish I had Maliko on my doorstep!!!!
As a training/equipment testing ground we couldn't ask for better.
I digress; I can use my Starboard Ace 14 x 25" in every condition up to 20kn+ DW(then its time for the big boards). I love the way the Ace rolls,slips and slides through the bumps. I have not paddled another 14' to match it so far. I use a single fin setup. (I won't go into what I use here as I think that would be rude to the OP) If anything I would consider going to an even smaller single fin.
I can't help but feel that if you need so many extra fins to help cope with conditions then your board is too narrow for you. Perhaps its a good way to truely have one board for everything?
I dont know. its interesting.

Open ocean? Surely you don't use ventral/multi fin setups  in ocean DW conditions?
Doesn't that adversely effect maneuverability? How do you foot steer and slip and slide with the uneven bumps and troughs with that much drag/fin area?

I wish all my open ocean sessions were downwind runs but the reality for me is more of
open ocean grind. You guys in OZ got it good. And yes, on a pure downwinder it doesn't
make sense to use anything but a single fin.

On a messy downwinder, I can make the case of using the stealth twins as well (3 fins, no ventral)
without being penalized much on rail steering. That would only make sense on an all-water wide
tail boards and maybe pintail boards with very rounded bottom and not pure downwind boards, so
probably non of it relates to your situation.

[burchas]

Perhaps its a good way to truely have one board for everything?
I dont know. its interesting.

Yap, you hit the nail on the head. 4 fins will benefit you in most conditions

- Flat water - Better forward momentum, glide and tracking thus higher average speed.
- cross wind/side chop - more equal stroke count per side, better stability, tracking and
   rhythm thus higher average speed.
- headwind - board is more predictable, nose doesn't get pushed around as much thus
   better rhythm and higher average speed
- Open water rough conditions - for me on the 14x24 ,it's the difference between mostly
   paddling to mostly swimming

Paddlers on a higher caliber, once they dialed-in their setups, could put it to even better
use. See Mick Di Betta's board above.

You described your area as the best training/equipment testing ground, so you're in a
a perfect position to put this setup to a good use. Like you said, very interesting

[PonoBill]

I understand your skepticism Kieran--I shared it, still share it, sort of. I'm skeptical of anything that works if I don't understand why it does. I don't like that.

The odd thing about the Larry multi fins is that they actually feel low drag. My fastest configuration so far is small twins with a ventral or fence between them. I'm pretty sure if I measured the area of those three fins they would be substantially bigger than one of my test single fins. and yet they are faster. I don't like them for downwind, I feel like I'm just a passenger, but upwind, crosswind or flat, they're faster. Not a little faster within the error band. I mean WTF just happened faster.