CT school shooting

[Bean]

Norway does not really have strict gun laws. I know. I am from Norway.

You can own only certain firearms in Norway and they are registered nationally.  They also have a very accessable, progressive mental health care system.  Some insane acts can't be fully explained, but that's not to say we give up on finding answers and solutions.

[lucabrasi]

How egocentric...
Arguing about rights to bear arms when 20 kids have been murdered. That absolutely floors me. Just maybe consider, even just for a moment that maybe there is a remote possibility that something could be changed a just little to make it just a little bit safer for everyone?

Arguing gun control at the same time is no different. I do not think anyone here thinks otherwise that things need to change....somehow.

I tell you this much...your right to bear arms ends a long time before innocent kids rights to not get mowed down by a fucking machine gun.

To my knowledge there has not been a machine gun used in any of the horrifically sad acts in our malls or schools or theaters. Perhaps you may think I am splitting hairs but there just hasn't.

the thing is though that crazy people are usually not able to get hold of guns. I am not sure about this situation, but it sickens me to see the NRA arguments about cars and do not take my liberties away and all that bullshit because it is not a human right to own guns. The 2nd amendment is about a country having a military, the meaning was changed in 2008 or so.
Humans are ALSO the problem, but surely the chances of getting shot is a lot lower if there is no gun around.

I know I am setting myself up as an easy target here....but I do not think the NRA has ever used that argument.
The 2nd ammendment is absolutelty and positively not about having a military and that meaning has never changed to my knowledge.
Your last comment....no one can argue in that context.

[crtraveler]

SoCalSupper, that quote of Jesus that you use (Matthew 10:34) is out of context. He's referring there to the worship of himself and God and how that should take precedence over all other relationships. He wants to break people's earthly bonds and make their primary bond the bond with God. It isn't a call to violence or a validation of it. That only seems that way if you look at the quote in isolation.

Correct Ichabod...context is the key....the following verses after that indicate that it would be a persons desire to follow Jesus that could cause spiritual divisions in the family. 

[TEX_SUP]

oh give me a break with that bullshit argument. Cars are HIGHLY controlled, and they are actually necessary. Machine guns are not. Pistols are not. You can sit there and throw red herrings, squirrels and all the stickman arguments you want it does not change the fact that something has to change.

No one is talking about bans. It is doing something different. I do not know what, but clearly it is too easy to get hold of guns.

Everyone is outraged that some lunatic was not caught by the system. But you cannot possibly mean that because one part of a huge system is messed up, that you will not will not discuss anything. If that is the case you might as well take a seat on the tea party express bought and paid for by the Koch brothers...it is useless and absolutely counter productive to move a society forward. Stop taking your talking points from the NRA and think about it. Do you REALLY need to have a machine gun?

Norway does not really have strict gun laws. I know. I am from Norway. Again throwing out these red herrings does not help anything. \If I had a gun, I would be all for having stricter laws because I know I could be a responsible gun owner. The really sad thing is that just by owning a gun you are about 5 times more likely to be shot by a gun..and then most probably your own, but please the car analogy is silly. They are highly regulated.

You are very confused.  Cars are NOT highly controlled.  If you have money you can buy a car, no questions asked.  

Guns ARE highly controlled.  Every person requesting to buy a firearm is run through an instant background check.  If you are a convict or have mental issues you are denied.  That is control and this guy actually tried to buy a gun but wasn't able to.

Your argument about necessity is foolish.  Freedom of speech isn't necessary, freedom of religion isn't necessary, but they are protected by our Constitution because we believe in them.  Anyone who feels differently can try to change these amendments, in over 200 years many have attempted but always lost.  

This lunatic DID NOT use a "machine gun".  The type of weapon is irrevelant, he probably would have caused more fatalities if he used an old school shotgun.

Tea party express? Koch brothers?  You are the one with talking points my confused friend.

Red herrings? Yes you are guilty as charged with your "gun owners more likely to be shot" line.  Did you know that people who ride in cars are more likely to be in auto accidents than those who don't?  Shocking isn't it?  We should ban cars!

[TEX_SUP]

the thing is though that crazy people are usually not able to get hold of guns. I am not sure about this situation, but it sickens me to see the NRA arguments about cars and do not take my liberties away and all that bullshit because it is not a human right to own guns. The 2nd amendment is about a country having a military, the meaning was changed in 2008 or so.

Humans are ALSO the problem, but surely the chances of getting shot is a lot lower if there is no gun around.

Once again you are confused.

The second amendment applies to "the people" as in "we the people".  The reference to a "militia" means all able bodied people and the population as a whole.  Having the population armed was seen as the best defense against tyranny.  If that isn't clear enough the part about "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty clear.

Additionally if you think that "the people" does NOT mean everyone, then you are also saying that freedom of speech, religion, etc don't apply to all.  Be careful what you wish for.

The second amendment has withstood many challenges.  

It has NOT been changed as you claim.  

Humans are NOT the problem.  CRIMINALS are the problem.  People who refuse to follow the laws of society.  More laws will not stop them.  

This senseless tragedy could have been prevented if restrictions were placed on the CRIMINAL, who was known to be mentally unstable.

[TEX_SUP]

And even if it is 23/day, or whatever, that doesn't mean that all people's chances of being killed by a bullet are equal.

And this, seen from over the Atlantic is just perceived as "a rich white child life is much more important than a poor black child life".
And I don't even speak of the lives of middle east, african, asian ones

You are ignorant, foolish, and wrong to bring up race in this discussion. 

[Bean]

This senseless tragedy could have been prevented if restrictions were placed on the CRIMINAL, who was known to be mentally unstable.

Clearly you are not speaking about the CT tragedy; he had no prior criminal record.  I understand that we have not heard everything in this case, but since we have free press, we will eventually.  So far we have heard that his mother is alleged to have advised the baby sitter not to turn his back on him.  Do you know anyone like that in your "circle"?  If so, what will you do today to help the situation?

[Admin]

If that isn't clear enough the part about "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is pretty clear.

Heller was decided 5-4.  At least 4 supreme court Justices saw this as less clear than you do.  The dissenters read that the intent of the 2nd ammendment was a limited right to bear arms only in "well regulated State Malitias" and did not provide for individual or home uses, but you know that.  

Additionally there is no mention of the type of arms that must not be infringed on.  One could arguably satisfy the statement above by allowing pea-shooter posession and nothing else.  There is no mention of an unlimited right to bear arms.

[Bean]

And, the Jets would be in the playoffs if not for the 5 fumbles...

[Admin]

And, the Jets would be in the playoffs if not for the 5 fumbles...

As you are aware the comment was about how clear the second ammendment is.

Heller supports a lot of what has been proposed here and would not likley put up any roadblocks to what has been suggested.

Scalia's Opinion

"Nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill," he said. Nor was the court questioning "laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."

Scalia also said the Second Amendment protects weapons that are in "common use" and not those that are "dangerous and unusual."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/gun-control-backers-see-no-high-court-hurdle-in-push-for-laws.html

[Chan]

Chan- Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that i have come to bring peace on the earth, i did not come to bring peace, but a sword"
Jesus was no pacifist.

Interesting interpretation of the life and words of the Prince of Peace.  You would have a hard time finding a Christian leader or biblical scholar who would agree with you.  You wouldn't be the first, however, to use religious references as justification for violence.  

[Bean]

Heller supports a lot of what has been proposed here...

I'm at a loss as to how you arrive at that conclusion based on the Heller decision. 

[SoCalSupper]

Taut-very true-but there will always be a mixture of crazy humans and guns or some other weapon around.

Ichabod and Chan-that scripture was not intended to say jesus condones violence-neither do i-but keep in mind there is a time for everything according to Ecclesiastes. That was a pretty cheap shot Chan and you know it. Lots of scriptures in the bible about war and violence-the war in the spiritual realms etc..you say i took the scripture out of context and i say you took my posting of it out of context. I wish the bible and Jesus teachings were more easily understood and interpreted, but theyre not, he even spoke often in Parables, and he did it for a reason. the bible was written exactly as he intended it to be.

hmmmm, once again, INTERPRETATION.
Line up 10 christian leaders-youd get a varying mix of interpretation
the nutty snake handler pastor has his interpretation, they guy who wants to burn the Koran has his, ad nauseum....
Talk about a comlicated issue, and im not going to get into an argument on religion here on the SUZ.

I think i speak for the majority that thats the last thing we want right now.

Keep your family close-hug and cherish your children-Merry Christmas to all and God Bless.

[Admin]

I'm at a loss as to how you arrive at that conclusion based on the Heller decision. 

I think you understand how what I quoted above will be used in the months going forward.  The title of the article I posted was "Gun-Control Backers See No High Court Hurdle for Laws".

[greatdane]

As a firefighter/EMT, I have a had a gun pulled on me 3 times while responding to overdoses or assaults.  I can tell you that when a gun is pointed at my face, I really don't give a s#$t how it was obtained.