One SUP 17'7 Unlimited downwinding VID

[yugi]

yeah right, photofr! 

[yugi]

...

Here's an experiment for your next physics class:
Toss a round rock and let it skip on water.
Toss a 4-square foot flat piece of wood and let it skip on water.
Compare top speeds, and be surprised a little by the lack of big difference.

Absurd. Has nothing to do with what we are speaking about.

I could explain, but, pass.

[LaPerouseBay]

/
Obviously, skis are very fast, but there's no way they'll plane unless they're in a wave that will probably tear them to pieces. The hull shape is all wrong for planing. Momentum is the answer--being in the energy. all the time. Or at least as close as possible.
/

No planing that I can see in this video.



As for momentum, I don't think of it as being "in the energy. all the time.  Or at least as close as possible."  That is certainly a valid way to look at it, just not my angle.   

What I prefer to think of is conservation of momentum.  As in, get out of the glide with as much speed as possible.  Boats are good at this. 

Unlimited's are good at this.  Unlimited's weigh as much as boats.  Therefore... skis are witches.

[Eagle]

The pics of the guys SUP paddling do not look like planing at all.  With a boat you either a) displace b) plow a huge wake c) get onto a plane.  Once on a plane you can throttle back a bit once over the hump and stay on plane.  This occurs a different speeds depending on the boat.

https://www.boat-ed.com/canada/studyGuide/How-Planing-Hulls-Operate/101199_700083512/

On a SUP - DW planing occurs infrequently and generally for very brief periods.  A few seconds max for me.  The board is not in displacement mode nor plowing a huge wake.  It skitters over the waves and becomes very unstable like on marbles -> then quickly slows down back into displacement mode.  99.5% of the time the board is in glide displacement mode on a wave or plowing a wake in surf mode - never freeing up and getting over the hump.  The very obvious skittering effect to me feels like planing mode.  Of my 5 boards the only one not able to plane is the AS23.  My guess is because it is a tad too narrow.  My wider boards seem to plane definitely easier.

On my ULDB racing sailboat we have planed that boat briefly at 17 kts on GPS many times and get a huge rooster tail off the rudder.  The boat is very planted and can easily go faster with more wind under complete control.  It has a panel vee tail just like the Bullets.  Other boats have a flat tail like the original M14 - feel much less planted.  They can plane as well -> but feel like crap.  Jimmy modifying that board to a panel vee was definitely the right move.  The feeling of the original M14 planing also feels like crap.  So much better to just surf that board across and down waves vs trying to catapult and plane.  It feels simply too directionally unstable planing.

[photofr]

The video angle is nearly impossible to tell if the ski is planning or not. A side view would have probably helped a little.

@Eagle:
You are mentioning "the feel" numerous times. You are bringing a good point: there's a feel we all need to describe. That may help shape up the "perfect" word to describe semi-planning and planning on a SUP.

12'6x24 Sprint
Semi planning on this board occurs for only seconds - at least that the feeling I get. The board clearly accelerates and gets overly stable for an instant. Soon thereafter, I'd lose the wave and the board will wobble a bit (it's narrow). The feeling was: huge boost of speed and stability, but short lived.

14x25 Allstar
While getting this board on a plane felt like a little more work, the board would plane nicely, and become ultra stable. The glide would last a little longer and the lost of speed wasn't as noticeable.

17'6x23 Sprint
Contrary to popular beliefs, this board isn't just made for flat water. It's an amazing downwind machine in the right conditions. I currently have over 4500 km on that board.

The key to planning is to have enough speed to get onto a bump. This is definitely where the UL and Surfski excel: their respective cruising speeds are higher, so they allow you to catch great glides. Once on a true ocean swell, the above UL would accelerate like mad, and become very stable: rock solid - and that's when I pretty much know that I am planning.

18x17 Surfski
Faster cruising speed, tippy ski for the masses, but again becomes super ultra stable when planning.

CONCLUSION
I feel like the term SEMI-PLANNING very well describes what we are all talking about. It's the difference between a windsurf board planning (skipping)  on water. Surfskis with round hulls and narrow SUP with semi round hulls can definitely get into semi-planning (planning for short) though they will not skip or ricochet on water like a windsurf board.

The feeling of semi-planning is still very obvious: mostly due with the common denominator of a craft that gets overly stable when semi-planning.

Do you guys agree now that UL can plane (semi plane) and are more suited for Downwind?

[Luc Benac]

Without throwing fuel to the controversy, I would say that I do not really care about the exact word or technical definition for once as it seems to bring more division than consensus.
I am happy to simply consider that everything is fine once the board is "committed" to a/several bumps. Higher apparent speed, firm footing and no wavering side to side or stalling. The board is just going. Usually the more I have that during the usual run, the shorter is the overall time from A to B, the more I feel like a king....if for only a brief moment.

[yugi]

^ summarized as "grin factor"

Yep, that's what it's all about.
My "grin factor" comes from maximising planning . In all my watersports (well, I also swim). As winter comes I'll switch to planning on snow. All I do is pow.

[supuk]

A ski is a displacement hull and displacement hull do not plane. You would need to be doing speeds way in excess of what a wave could create to get it any were close.
We spent our child hood getting towed around behind a ski boat on evething from kayaks to tables and you soon start to learn what speed things do what.

While you can just about get a DW board to fully plain most of the time they are still in a form of displacement event if you are surfing when on most average DW runs.

Im sure you go fast in your ski and even faster when your on a good bump giving you a great buzz  but plain in a rounded displacement hull it is very unlikly !

[LaPerouseBay]

The video angle is nearly impossible to tell if the ski is planning or not. A side view would have probably helped a little.
/

Here you go.  Kai is not planing.

[PonoBill]

I know it's just my literal mind, but to me this feels like having a disagreement about what 50% of 200 is.

My suggestion for names:
Planing: Where more than 50% of the weight is supported hydrodynamically vs. buoyancy; Where the hull speed moves consistently faster than the bow wave, so bow and stern waves converge; Where speed exceeds the lift point, so a suddenly unpowered hull continues to coast for some time before settling.

Beaning: Where hull speed matches wave speed closely enough so efficient energy transfer occurs and the hull accelerates down the face of the swell.

Semi-Beaning: Nose lifts and some energy is transferred, but not enough to move down the face of the swell.

Fredding: Everything else.

[Muskoka SUP]

^ summarized as "grin factor"

Yep, that's what it's all about.
My "grin factor" comes from maximising planning . In all my watersports (well, I also swim). As winter comes I'll switch to planning on snow. All I do is pow.

Word.   Actually one word.  Glisse. 

[Eagle]

Very hard to get a completely rounded hull to plane.  It needs to unstick and release.  So looks like the ski is not planing.  Most I have planed my Bullet was heading into Squamish where the wind blows down over the mountains at 25 kts with gusts to 30+.  Fetch there is super small so the wind waves are very small - see pic.  You need to angle left to get into the river so you do not head DDW coming around Watts.  Otherwise you will get blown over to the highway.  So you naturally have to angle your board across the wind swells.  And once you gun it - all you need do is step back to get the Bullet to release its concave suction and plane on the panel vee.  Major grin factor yes.  Haha.  But this feeling is very unstable.  If you feel stable you are probs in displacement or plow surf mode.

[yugi]

^ waxed and ready to ride


Hey, speaking of them long slippery but not very planning hulls. Hats off to this dude.
   

He took off AFTER the vendee globe (planers!!!!) race. The first 2 of which ave just rounded Cape Horn for the Atlantic return (to right near Brest).

I'm still in the planning category of fun. Yeah, glisse, also sideways.

[yugi]

... heading into Squamish where the wind blows down over the mountains at 25 kts with gusts to 30+.  Fetch there is super small so the wind waves are very small - see pic.  You need to angle left to get into the river so you do not head DDW coming around Watts.  Otherwise you will get blown over to the highway. 
...

which way is the wind blowing?

[Eagle]

yugi - the first pic in the box shows wind direction and speed.