One SUP 17'7 Unlimited downwinding VID

[UKRiverSurfers]

So what if a guy makes a vid without a leash... Its his company, his idea, his vid... Its his choice.


You grumpy load of Gits 

[UKRiverSurfers]

If someone copies him and dies - thats their choice... Its also Natural Selection - period!

[UKRiverSurfers]

PS - my entire life has been mapped out by the drowning of my baby sister.. She died because she WAS LEASHED to a sinking push chair. Get over it!

Leashes and cords also kill.

[PonoBill]

I fully understand that, it's a point I've made many times. And it has almost nothing to do with what I was saying. Then again, I joined the search for Andres Pombo, and participated in the paddle out for him. A nice guy who died because it's cooler to downwind without a leash.

[LaPerouseBay]

Wow Angie, is that average speed? Looks like you are never dropping off planing. Sweet. How windy was it?

Yes, those are average speeds, per kilometer.  I'm not familiar with that particular program, it's probably the latest version of garmin connect. 

Her top speeds were up in the 20s. 

That pace she has is a 59:30 maliko.  Very fast on standup.  She and Jacko go even faster than that on downwind runs.  All the pros do.  Much faster.

As for planing, that's where the high top end speeds are, but not really what the unlimited boards do to chop the overall time.  It's all about momentum.  Long boards go faster in the open ocean because they carry momentum better.  Like outriggers and skis.  And boats don't plane. 

Unlimited boards certainly do plane, and they go like hell.  Super exciting, much more rewarding IMO, than a fast glide in a boat.

But, open ocean average speed is all about momentum.  That's what big long boards do well.  They weave together small bumps, then the medium bumps catch the rider.  Then the rider tries to sneak in a progressively bigger bump.   The pros are great at trimming/steering boards up in the marbles at speed.  They know how to anticipate the big trains rolling through.  They are also masters at maintaining momentum on the back of the swell.  Boats do that really well.  That's why they are faster, on average.     

     

[PonoBill]

Very interesting post Larry, and it jelled a couple of things I've wondered about. Obviously, skis are very fast, but there's no way they'll plane unless they're in a wave that will probably tear them to pieces. The hull shape is all wrong for planing. Momentum is the answer--being in the energy. all the time. Or at least as close as possible.

[Eagle]

Unlimiteds = momentum.  Glide machines that flow vs slow.  14s do more stop and go.  They are easier to plane but go at a slower average speed DW overall.  For me a 17.4 Bullet is much faster on average than a 14 Bullet.  And much easier to go faster as well.  Here are some top 3 results to compare times -

M2O 2016 Stock 4:40 4:45 4:48
Unlimited 4:07 4:10 4:16

M2O 2015 Stock 5:26 5:38 5:53
Unlimited 4:59 5:15 5:19

http://www.molokai2oahu.com/history/results/

[photofr]

We are all into SUP gliding slicing through flat water, and/or SUP planning on Downwind runs. I don't think we can dismiss the fact that surfski will also plane.

Windsurf boards will plane with ease, but we all know that under the right conditions, just about anything will plane, including a bodysurfer.

Here's a nearly complete round hull: starting to plane at about 18 km/h or more.

[PonoBill]

We need some new words to describe this stuff I guess. After the thread about planing I did some reading, both on the web and in dead tree books.  The notion of planing used to be pretty narrowly defined by hull design, since only hulls with specific designs could be said to plane. But it's morphed over time to describe a number of different phenomena. Especially the kind of "planing" that occurs in waves. the problem lies in the historic definition, which is simply the point where a majority of the mass of the boat is supported by hydrodynamic vs. hydrostatic (buoyancy) force.  So it might be said that a surfski with its nose sticking partly out of a wave is planing, even though it's unlikely that the majority of the weight is hydrodynamically supported.

The idea of partial planing creates a lot of fog, since if you allow "partial" into the definition then every hull that is moving partially planes--even the slowest displacement freighter has some hydrodynamic lift.

[yugi]

dunno what you're reading but...

As a kid, sailing dinghy's, planing was when the bow wave joins the transom wave, to form one. Dinghy's in those days were far narrower, E.g. 470, Flying Dutchman. 505's were amon the first wide body optimised for planing hulls. So I felt the differences even befoer windsurfing.

Hydrodynamic vs. hydrostatic (buoyancy)  works, as does the defn of bow wave joining transom wave. There is such a thing as being "on the cusp" of planing. You kind of are but could fall off it really easily. Which you do often (you've all felt it SUP downwwinding). When you "get over the hump" and you are planing for real the thing is that it is self sustaning as long as you can keep your speed up. Hence that "on the cusp" thing where you barely are is real, and you are technically planning, but so damn little that you still feel the pressure of pushing a lot of water and you risk easily falling off it. A long sleek boat, like a surfski, is in this  "cusp" zone mostly. Maybe never more  than that "almost" plane for as the hull rises you are left with the narrower tail to carry you so it is forever relegated to that "cusp" zone. Starby Ace springs to mind as a device which belongs to that philosophy.

That partial planing is still planing as long as you are over the Hydrodynamic vs. hydrostatic (buoyancy) balance. You feel it very well. Above or falling off it. We've all been there. Totally feelable without a doubt. (except that one bullshitter we all know who will be water up to his knees screaming "I'm planing, I'm planing". While sinking. But trusting what other people say is a different debate.

Partial planing is, on a fun scale, very lame. Full on screaming planning is of course the schizznit. But still..
   Planing is planing, even if weak. You know it when you feel it.

[yugi]

^ sorry for the diversion trying to explain and stuff.

"we need new words to describe this stuff". Yep. Good idea.

Brainstorm rules: anything goes. Place entries here:
   http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,31099.0.html

[photofr]

We can perhaps agree to call it "Planing" when any craft hits a certain speed: say anything in excess of 16km/h.
The words we should use to describe this could be along the line of:
Popping, Aquaplaning, Water Screaming, GOFFing (good old fashion fun), or just Fun for short.

When I paddle my surfski, I can totally tell when it's screaming: I literally feel it rising above water; a mere 2 to 3 inches difference that makes a world of difference in facial expressions.

[photofr]

When crafts are planning, it is pretty clear to me that they all behave the same way, with a clear common denominator.
(seemingly happening every single time at about 16 km/h)

[yugi]

When crafts are planning, it is pretty clear to me that they all behave the same way, with a clear common denominator.
(seemingly happening every single time at about 16 km/h)
...

A "universal" speed for planning? Bullshit!

For those of you not paying attention in physics class it may be easier to illustrate and speak in real world terms and experience:

I can guarantee you, personally, from experience, that the speed to get me up on a plane standing on a tabletop (that can seat 12 for example) is very very different from the speed required for me to barefoot ski.

I can assure you, right here and now, that no-one will be barefoot skiing at 16 km/h. Not even bozo the clown (barefoot). Period.

Maybe your surfskis and OCs plane at about 16 km/h. Good for you. Sorry, doesn't make it a universal rule. Walk into your local windsurf shop, go to a really big wide board and ask the shop guy at what speed you can get it to plane at. Then find the smallest board in the shop and ask the shop guy what speed that needs to plane at.

[photofr]

Yes, universal crafts, not barefoot skiing that requires a completely different level of planning to execute maneuvers. But don't you think that we are already planning while bodysurfing at 16km/h?

Somewhere along the line, we were all paying attention in class, but we have to narrow it down and keep it focused to similar sports.
Surfski, SUP, OC1, Windsurfing, longboard surfing, body surfing, etc... where pretty much all start planning between 16-18km/h.

While waterskiing barefoot behind a boat at 55km/h is definitely planning and allows enough surface tension for maneuvers, might be worth to note that at about 18km/h, we are no longer cutting through the water, but merely already planning.

Here's an experiment for your next physics class:
Toss a round rock and let it skip on water.
Toss a 4-square foot flat piece of wood and let it skip on water.
Compare top speeds, and be surprised a little by the lack of big difference.