PFD's Questions????

[mrbig]

Yep. All of my boards did not have a recessed cockpit! An ACE on Lake Superior would be interesting..

[coldsup]

This is an important discussion. I was surprised at how hard it was to get back on my Naish 17fter in 30 knots with a full pfd on, that had a PLB etc stuffed in the front pockets. The safety equipment was making me unsafe! The very definition of irony (take note, Alanis Morissette).

It might be an argument for a waist-belt type pfd - at least in flat water. But has anyone tried getting back on a board wearing one when it is inflated? Does it get in the way like a normal full pfd does?

What I'd really like is an impact vest like the Gooru that has a bladder that you can inflate yourself if you need to to turn it into a full pfd. Best of both worlds, perhaps. Does anyone make such a thing?

Yup, when I stuff the VHF and PLB in the front pockets then I look like the Tin Man and getting back on is harder....I can always do it but it isn't fun.

[LaPerouseBay]

Keeping an eye on this product which looks interesting:

http://www.hyde-sportswear.com/pages/home-2

They shipped mine yesterday.   I always wear a PFD on my ski.  I've had a few adventures and did several swims.  Swimming is tough in a PFD.  My plan was to keep it on for short swims and ditch it if I was way outside.  Great to have for unexpected problems, including helping someone else.

The wing man will be much easier to swim in.  I plan on sun fading this one from red to white too.

They updated the kickstarters as they developed the vest.  The Coast Guard testing was brutal.  The bureaucratic hoops were comical.  My heart goes out to anyone that has to navigate those jackasses.

[supdiscobay]

What I'd really like is an impact vest like the Gooru that has a bladder that you can inflate yourself if you need to to turn it into a full pfd. Best of both worlds, perhaps. Does anyone make such a thing?

This would be awesome.
We live on the Delta Waterways, between Sacramento and San Francisco.  Our ski boat is at our dock in the backyard and I ski a set in the slalom course 2-3 times a week.  I have always used non CG approved vests, due to the restriction of movement.  Bought a Gooru a year and a half ago.  The design is so good that I actually have a much better range of movement while skiing over my old Non-CG approved vests.  I do wear CG approved pfd for wakeboarding/wakesurfing.
I have never used my Gooru for SUS.  But I have no doubt that it would not limit or restrict movement at all.
The idea of having a Gooru with an inflatable bladder would be the perfect combination of impact protection and safety. 

[iDownwind]

Keeping an eye on this product which looks interesting:

http://www.hyde-sportswear.com/pages/home-2

They shipped mine yesterday.   I always wear a PFD on my ski.  I've had a few adventures and did several swims.  Swimming is tough in a PFD.  My plan was to keep it on for short swims and ditch it if I was way outside.  Great to have for unexpected problems, including helping someone else.

The wing man will be much easier to swim in.  I plan on sun fading this one from red to white too.

They updated the kickstarters as they developed the vest.  The Coast Guard testing was brutal.  The bureaucratic hoops were comical.  My heart goes out to anyone that has to navigate those jackasses.

I pre-ordered a Wingman too. Hopefully it will be here soon.

[PonoBill]

The wingman is a nice design, but I'd like something that provided some immediate float, some impact protection, and more float on inflation. Until that comes along I might have to look at one of these. I don't care about CG approval. I have nothing but respect for the Coast Guard as an organization, but the PFD stuff is just bureaucratic flim flam.

[CascadeSup]

I signed on to the Kickstarter, and got my Wingman about a month ago.  I like it, low profile, and very comfortable - I don't notice that it is there at all.  But I'm tall and skinny - not sure how it will fit larger people. 

It does share a lot of the pluses and minuses with other inflatables - no immediate flotation, no impact protection.  But a lot easier to use if you do have to inflate it.  Yes, it would be must less drag swimming - until you deploy it, then it's going to be pretty much like any other inflatable. 

Nice pocket in the back for phone/dry case and keys.  Might have to rethink your hydration if you are currently using a backpack bladder.  But it leaves you waist free.

[iDownwind]

I signed on to the Kickstarter, and got my Wingman about a month ago.  I like it, low profile, and very comfortable - I don't notice that it is there at all.  But I'm tall and skinny - not sure how it will fit larger people. 

It does share a lot of the pluses and minuses with other inflatables - no immediate flotation, no impact protection.  But a lot easier to use if you do have to inflate it.  Yes, it would be must less drag swimming - until you deploy it, then it's going to be pretty much like any other inflatable. 

Nice pocket in the back for phone/dry case and keys.  Might have to rethink your hydration if you are currently using a backpack bladder.  But it leaves you waist free.

Will a bladder from a Camelback fit in the Wingman? I was under the impression that it would. The also had said that you can attach a GoPro or other POV action camera to it as well.

[CascadeSup]

Will a bladder from a Camelback fit in the Wingman? I was under the impression that it would. The also had said that you can attach a GoPro or other POV action camera to it as well.

I forgot about that - yes, there is a neoprene sleeve on the inside of the back.  It isn't big - about 10 inches high and 5 inches wide.  I don't have a bladder that size, so I guess I'll have to get one.

The accessory packs shown the kickstarter page are not available yet. 

[coldsup]

I don't really see much of an advantage of the Wingman over the current bum bag style PDFs that are now on the market. Only reason for a Wingman is if I was in a surfski or OC.

[CascadeSup]

I don't really see much of an advantage of the Wingman over the current bum bag style PDFs that are now on the market. Only reason for a Wingman is if I was in a surfski or OC.

It seems the Wingman is closer to the suspender style inflatables than the waist pack.  And certainly most SUP'ers have chosen with the waist pack style.

Maybe it isn't that compelling, but two things come to mind:  I think it would be less drag when swimming - before it is inflated. Second, to deploy a waist pack style requires you to spin it around to the front (since everyone wears them backwards), inflate it, get it over your head, and tie the neck closure.  Maybe that's not a big deal, but I've heard someone say it's not as easy to get over your head in rough water than you might think.  I don't know, I haven't tried.  But with the Wingman all you have to do is pull the handle.   

I think my most likely scenarios for using an inflatable pfd is either after I've lost my board, and I'm exhausted from swimming; or, I'm still conscious, but somehow incapacitated.  In either case, simpler is better.

So I've been wearing the Wingman on downwind runs, and still using the waist pack on flat water.  But I already have both.  If I could have just one, I'd pick the Wingman.  But I suspect most people will be put off by the price and go with the cheaper option of a waist pack. 

Earlier in this thread someone said the ideal would be to have something like an inflatable impact vest.  Initial buoyancy plus a full pfd.  The Wingman isn't inherently buoyant, but you could wear a Wingman over an impact vest.  I know, it would be expensive, and more stuff to deal with.   Tradeoffs.

[zachhandler]

What is the advantage of wingman over the harnes type inflatables?

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--manual-inflatable-life-jacket-with-harness-yellow--16759755?recordNum=2

[SeaMe]

I signed on to the Kickstarter, and got my Wingman about a month ago.  I like it, low profile, and very comfortable - I don't notice that it is there at all.  But I'm tall and skinny - not sure how it will fit larger people. 

A month ago?  Mine just shipped late last week,wth? 

Maybe it isn't that compelling, but two things come to mind:  I think it would be less drag when swimming - before it is inflated. Second, to deploy a waist pack style requires you to spin it around to the front (since everyone wears them backwards), inflate it, get it over your head, and tie the neck closure. 

It may vary by brand, but the tether between the belt and jacket on mine is long enough to allow the jacket to go on over my head while the waist pack is facing rear. If I felt the situation was bad enough to deploy, I wouldn't waste time turning it to the front.

What is the advantage of wingman over the harnes type inflatables?

While not as bulky as traditional PFD, those have a relatively high profile (i.e. will create drag) and the placement of the harness is not optimal for the arm movement of swimmers.

[LaPerouseBay]

A month ago?  Mine just shipped late last week,wth? 

I'm guessing he got his earlier because he was higher on the list of backers.  That first shipment was the batch the CG monitored, in Taiwan. 

Ours is probably later due to shipping by boat, due to the CO2 cylinder.  The details are in those updates they sent over the months. 

Very tough startup IMO.  I got mine Friday.  It's a very rugged, well designed, snazzy little unit.  Stitching, materials all look first rate.  They must have done dozens of prototypes.

I say give them a break,  there are hundreds of potential snags. 

I screwed up the unit this morning.  I had watched the vid about a week ago.  I should have watched it again, very carefully, before inspecting the vest.  Before screwing in the cartridge, I was tugging all over and marveling at the design.  I pulled on the cord without the cartridge, to see how the cord drives the pin.  They do it in the video.

But the trick is, that green indicator is a one time (use it and it's busted) item.  It's a plastic safety pin that halts the trigger.  Well, I broke it. 

I made another one to get me by.  Then sent the guys a nice note asking for another.  It was my fault.

The guys should have anticipated EVERYTHING going wrong.  They should have mentioned in the video that the pin he puts in is new - the old one is busted. 

Notice how the comments have been disabled on that video?  Those poor bastards are undoubtedly fielding emails from pissed off customers, accusing him of sleight of hand to outright fraud.  Ever read youtube comments?

Lot's of snags in that business.  I wish them all the best.  It's a very cool vest.  I'm super happy with mine.

All the packaging and literature is first rate.  We've all seen much, much worse.  That damn pin, watch out! 

[CascadeSup]

Not sure how I got an early one, maybe I was an early backer.  And I think the first batch were all red, did you ask for red or another color?

Bummer about the indicator, LPB.  But good to keep in mind.

Thought I would follow up on the hydration. As I mentioned before, the hydration sleeve isn't all that big - about 10 inches high and 5 inches wide. You can see in the second picture how the back is tapered like an hourglass.

I searched around for reservoirs about that size. These are the two I tried:
The Hydrapac Elite 1L
The Camelbak Antidote 1.5L

I wanted to try one from Source, but they all seemed too wide. The Widepac 1.5L might work.

I think the max capacity in the Wingman is going to be about 1L, maybe a little more.  I know some (a lot?) of people would like to have more.  It's OK with me, as I don't want that much weight riding up there.  Without the reservoir, the Wingman is so light and balanced that I don't notice that I have it on.  But adding the reservoir, I definitely notice it a lot more, both the weight and pulling back on the shoulders. 

It is hard to judge how the reservoirs will fit from just the product descriptions because the shape of the reservoir changes as it's filled. Both the Hydrapac and the Camelbak reservoirs fit in the sleeve, but in both cases they fit better if the reservoirs are not filled to capacity – about 750ml for the Hydrapac, and 1L for the Camelbak (which is longer).   If you want to maximize capacity, I think the 1.5L Hydrapac Elite may be the best fit, filled to about 1L.  Or maybe the Source Widepac.

The Hydrapac is a lot lighter and less bulky than the Camelbak which has the large circular fill port.  The Hydrapac comes with a nice magnetic clip for the hose.  I do like the bite valve on the Camelbak better, but the Hydrapac value is good, too.

The first picture is the Hydrapac hose going through the shoulder loop (there is a loop on each shoulder), and the magnetic clip.

The second picture is the outside of the back. The CO2 cartridge sits at the top of the back between your shoulder blades (above the black triangle). The space for the reservoir is from the top of the triangle down.

The third picture is the inside of the back panel.  The access to the hydration sleeve is between the two arrows.

The fourth picture is the 1L Hydrapac showing about where it is going to fit.  The Hydrapac is filled to just 750ml.

Picture 5 shows the reservoir inserted.  It doesn't quite reach the bottom.

Picture 6 is a side view, showing the reservoir bulge.