Simmons-shaped boards vs regular boards

[T-Boy]

So far my 8-0 ST has been a quiver killer, not that I had much of one. Was lucky enough to catch the last big south swell in Santa Cruz and got plenty of overhead right handers.
  Once my old brain got used to how fast this board goes the fun really started, like Chill said keep it on the rail.

[beached]

good to hear i'm not alone! i agree,  if you don't get this thing on a rail in bigger waves, it will slide. but once you get your foot way back there, it feels like it will hold in anything. and i also never thought i could use this on choppy days...but the more i took it out on choppy days, the easier it got. i'll hold onto my bigger boards, but i think they're getting bored hanging out in the garage.

[stoneaxe]

I don't care for my simmons (Vec v-chub blown up) in mushy waves....too much work trying to get in or i'm sitting in with the shortboarders. But once they clean up some or get a little bigger and get some face it's great. I don't think mine is as fast as the Simsups since the rails aren't as straight in the rear but it still lets me make sections that would be questionable otherwise. I can also throw the v-chub around like nothing else I have. That's certainly partially due to the length but I also had mine made for Larry's twin moons like Chill runs in his Phoenix. When I step back over the twins I can spin it in circles, but the grab you get when on a rail is just silly, the responsiveness is insane. Quiver killer...no....I love variety. I often go to the beach with 3 boards (almost always at least two) they'll run from the 8-4 V-chub to my 14'er with the 10-6 triton in the middle as the primary go-to and the one that gets used most often regardless of conditions.

[magentawave]

I struggle with the wide tail on my 8' L41 S4 and I want to experiment with a pointier board so I can do more vertical turns. Depending on how much juice the wave has, I find all that width starts feeling sketchy at around head high. (A 5th fin box might help that.) Had I not spent the last two years fighting to NOT use the paddle to turn (cuz I wanted to keep it pure, man) then I might be telling you a different story today.

Last week I tried an Infinity TL (7'-11" x 27" x 3 3/4" x 100L) which is way more pointier than the S4 and I could hardly stand and paddle the thing. It was humbling. Someone told me that even a couple liters when you get down around that size can make a major difference. I can easily handle paddling my 123L S4 in super choppy conditions now so I'm thinking I might be ready to drop down to maybe 110L to 115L. All the tomo style board people say that surface area is just as if not more important for paddling than volume.

Here's a question for everyone...   If you were ready to drop down from your current 123L, how much farther down in volume would you go if the smaller board had a similar outline? Would dropping to 110L be too extreme?

Beached - It's been a couple months, but is that you I've seen out at Del Mar a few times?

I've been on an L41 Simsup ST for about 6 months now, and find it difficult to get back on my regular shaped boards. They all seem so slow in comparison.  Some are actually more stable than my SIMSUP, but when it comes to performance, there is no comparison. I'm just wondering if others who own simmons-shaped boards have found the same to be true. I know some don't seem to like wide-tailed boards, but i don't understand why since they perform so much better, IMO. Now, my size and balance skills, or lack thereof, don't allow me to ride a board sub-30 in width, and maybe  those narrower boards are where performance shines..but i suspect there are many mere mortals out there like myself that just will never be comfortable on a 28" wide SUP, so the simmons shapes seem ideal for us.

[RATbeachrider]

Magentawave,

I went from 8'3x29.5 103L down to 7'8x27 91L and found the volume not to be a big factor.  On the other hand, the reduction in the surface area plays for more into my ability to stay on the board.  Instead of a large sweet spot for the stance, I'm down to a spot that is approximately 15"x15" (semi-staggered stance in glassy condition with paddle out of the water).  In choppy condition, the paddle must be engaged to stay up right.

With the similar outline, you will be fine in the 110 to 115 liters zone.

P.S. Today was the third time on the new board and I'm getting a bit more comfortable ... falling less and catching a tad more waves.

[SUP Sports ®]

I have seen limitations on Simmons-shaped boards in OH surf...especially, the ones with the fins pasted all the way on the rails...
I don't get a sketchy feeling in overhead waves on my 7'10" wide-tailed Jammer...feels really positive with back foot over the accelerator...
I went down to a 7'5"...but, now have a 7'8" as a daily driver...
I think that fins and fin placement has a lot to do with it...I'm riding quad + 2.25" or 3.19" StubNub...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/jammer-sup

[magentawave]

How much do you weigh?

SUPsports - Those are awesome photos. Your boards have a lot of meat in the tail so I'm surprised they can handle the big stuff.

Magentawave,

I went from 8'3x29.5 103L down to 7'8x27 91L and found the volume not to be a big factor.  On the other hand, the reduction in the surface area plays for more into my ability to stay on the board.  Instead of a large sweet spot for the stance, I'm down to a spot that is approximately 15"x15" (semi-staggered stance in glassy condition with paddle out of the water).  In choppy condition, the paddle must be engaged to stay up right.

With the similar outline, you will be fine in the 110 to 115 liters zone.

P.S. Today was the third time on the new board and I'm getting a bit more comfortable ... falling less and catching a tad more waves.

[RATbeachrider]

140lbs or 63.3kg.

Also on these small and low volume boards, you must be light on the feet to stay afloat.

[magentawave]

Geez, only 140?! Well my fat arse is pushing 190 so no wonder I was doing the hula on that 100 liter Infinity! Believe me when I say that my respect for the heavier guys that can paddle 100 and sub 100 liter boards went up a thousandfold last week.

140lbs or 63.3kg.

[SUP Sports ®]

I'm hanging around 189# sans wettie...

There is volume jammed back in the tail...the stepped rails probably help a fair bit...but, the Jammers worked pretty good in sizable surf without them...
Again, fins...and fin placement, are very important parameters...

Consider that waveskis, with huge amounts of volume aft, can hold their own in size and critical surf sections surf...and, it becomes apparent that there are certainly other factors to consider...

[TallDude]

Geez, only 140?! Well my fat arse is pushing 190 so no wonder I was doing the hula on that 100 liter Infinity! Believe me when I say that my respect for the heavier guys that can paddle 100 and sub 100 liter boards went up a thousandfold last week.

140lbs or 63.3kg.

I'm 240lbs+ or 109kg. and my stand in the lineup min. is around 125 liters. My 9' short board is around 140 liters. It's half sunk, and paddles slow. Being 6'7 doesn't make things any easier either. One of these days I'll finish shaping the 8'5 Simmons I have in my shop. It should be around 130 liters. Just for a joke I paddled a 100 liter board in the harbor. I completely submerged it to my knees So there is a minimum.

[beached]

stoneaxe: i've got the V-chub as well...think mine is 8'6".  there is no comparison between that board and the SIMSUP ST, the latter being so much faster/lighter. The V-chub was my first sub 9fter, and it was great for a while, but now it seems too heavy, floaty and slow. it's the board visiting friends/family jump on for super-stability. Contrary to your findings, for me the V-chub fails in the bigger stuff...starts bouncing around and slides, but I'm probably too light for it at 200 lbs.

magentawave: not me in Del Mar...am on East Coast.

[stoneaxe]

stoneaxe: i've got the V-chub as well...think mine is 8'6".  there is no comparison between that board and the SIMSUP ST, the latter being so much faster/lighter. The V-chub was my first sub 9fter, and it was great for a while, but now it seems too heavy, floaty and slow. it's the board visiting friends/family jump on for super-stability. Contrary to your findings, for me the V-chub fails in the bigger stuff...starts bouncing around and slides, but I'm probably too light for it at 200 lbs.

magentawave: not me in Del Mar...am on East Coast.

Yeah I hear you. I'm going to call Kirk one of these days, love the look of the ST. Mine was the first v-chub Sup Shawn shaped. When I had mine built I had asked him to blend the Phoenix with the Simsup. It didn't quite work out that way. I think the nose is similar to the Phoenix but its not the simsup tail. I would have preferred thinner rails that were straighter in the tail. I'm sure its not as fast as the L41's. I've had it in up to head and a half and it performed well for me there, a little bouncy but no slide. What's the bottom like on yours? I think the biggest mistake I made was to have a convex nose, tends to plow a bit when I'm trying to get into smaller stuff. I do like the board though and have had some of my best rides on it.

It's interesting to see the different takes on what a "Simmons" style board is. There are some that look like a simmons...others that don't.
http://www.minisimmonssurfboards.com/understanding-mini-design/