Fastest of the fast?

[stoneaxe]

Rand's thread of fastest for downwind generated some great discussion and stoke for the downwind side of the sport but I don't think we ever got any kind of an answer.

What are the fastest boards out there? Take all the race boards we've seen. Put them on glass with the same paddler applying the same stroke, what board is going to go fastest? Do we know?

What are the fastest non race boards? A lot of us (including me) are likely to race in that kind of class at least until we can save the change for something sleek and shiny.

[Chan]

I don't know, but I sure am having fun testing.   Conditions are a major factor in the speed equation as is paddle choice.  I have been using the QB Peahi-great for deep pulls to get into that must make swell, but a bit catchy on the release, and the Werner- not as powerful, but smooth release. 

[PonoBill]

When I look at race results all I see is F15s in the front. Is that just because there's a lot of them out there or do the dominate.

[Byronmaui]

When I look at race results all I see is F15s in the front. Is that just because there's a lot of them out there or do the dominate.

Which ones are the F15?

Aloha

Byron

[DavidJohn]

What are the fastest boards out there? Take all the race boards we've seen. Put them on glass with the same paddler applying the same stroke, what board is going to go fastest? Do we know?

The one with Laird Hamilton or Dave Kalama on it.. 

DJ

[wadadli_waterman]

So far from what I can tell...........it depends on the day. 

Small variations in surface conditions (in swell direction, size, chop from wind, chop induced by current) makes a huge difference in the "right" board required.

I still think the speed is 90% paddler (stroke, wave knowledge, route knowledge).  But if the paddler matches up with the right board for the given conditions that perfect 100% will be attained.

So a good paddler on slow board could easily be faster than an average paddler on the ultimate board.

[Admin]

When I look at race results all I see is F15s in the front. Is that just because there's a lot of them out there or do the dominate.

Hi Bill,

If you meant the F-16, I think this may have been the first readily available racing option, at least in Hawaii.  As you know, those guys spent a lot of time developing it and refining it.  Then people started to win downwinders and crossings on it.  Enter a new group of participants to this side of the sport.  When they are ready to get a full blown race board, there is probably an F-16 that they can try...and when they do it will feeel very fast.  To ease their mind about such a big purchase, it has a pedigree.  It is kind of relaxing to know, well, if I am slow, its just me.  Some of the other current F variations seem to be for those that have an F-16 and are refining from that shape for their own size, preferences or maybe a specific race condition. 

[Admin]

The one with Laird Hamilton or Dave Kalama on it.. 

That is true, true, true. 

But, and it is a big but, I can't think of anyone who works more with their gear.  How many pictures of these guys do you see with them riding the same board?

It is not what makes them fast, but it seems that they are always looking to be faster.

[capobeachboy]

The real question is what do you want to do?  Hawaiian downwinders are not like our conditions on the mainland.  Are there specific events you aim to paddle in or do you just want to go from point A to point B when conditions permit?  The sport is very new to the east coast, and I don't think you can count on a downwind race unless you have a holding period and pray for a nor'easter.  Here in southern California we have 20+ SUP races a year and only two are downwinders.

There's no doubt F16s fly downhill but the playing field evens out if conditions are otherwise.  For our waters I think we need a more displacement-type hull that can glide in the flats, have stability in the cross chop/snotty conditions we know so well, and still catch bumps well in a downwind run.  From the Maui race pix, I don't think the F18 was made for that kind of racing, but props to the paddler as he obviously could handle the conditions.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of interesting boards for the mainland 12'6" stock class, and they'll be pretty fun to surf and easier on the wallet too.  C4, Jimmy Lewis and Naish already have production boards in that range available, and there's several shapers doing their own take on that design.  Also, if you're inclined to DIY it's a lot less intimidating than shaping and glassing an 18'piece of foam.

[stoneaxe]

I actually mixed two questions in the start of this thread. I realize the real world racing throws variables that might change the "best" board for the day. I should have left the second half out. From a purely engineering standpoint.....test track data kind of stuff....same power applied, same conditions.....which board is fastest? I know that Starboard has posted times for the point GPS tested in flat, calm conditions. Not sure what that translates to though in the real world.

[capobeachboy]

You've mixed it up more than that.  You start out asking about downwind but then you want to "put them on glass" ??  Glassy as in calm water or glass as a metaphor?

Downwind - I don't have enough experience to comment. 
Glass?  Lotsa very fast boards out here, but it's really the motor - not the board.

I think you need to hand this question over to Pono Bill for further research.

[stoneaxe]

Yeah...you're right I do have it pretty screwed up. It probably doesn't matter anyway....its all so subjective/variable that anything done in lab like conditions only has meaning there. Won't matter when the swell goes from 4' to 6' with a longer period and the rider is shorter and stockier, yada,yada....

Hehe...I will ask Bill...probably best if we have a few beers 1st though. We're carb loading tonight so it'll be a good opportunity.

[Admin]

Downwind - I don't have enough experience to comment. 
Glass?  Lotsa very fast boards out here, but it's really the motor - not the board.

Add in our local races that start as swell riding downwiders, but often end in flat water.  We have been doing Maliko runs in 25 MPH winds all week (little fun mock races with each other), and the order sure can change when we hit the harbor ( 7+/- minutes of flat water grinding).  The board that seemed faster in the open may struggle in the flats.  I know of a few members here who are thinking about seperate south shore boards, because the Maliko run is such a different deal.

I would definately talk to the guys in your area that are into it ahead of you, and if possible get some rides on their boards.  If there are none, talk to shapers about your conditions.

[Big Island Mike]

It's important to note, the top guys, (Kalama, Trudon, Cadiz, Riggs) all do a LOT of R&D. I think Scott said he went thru 4-5 boards last year before coming up with what they had in Molokai.

I personally don't think anyone will ever be able to compete with guys like this due to this, AND the fact the Maui has the best and most consistent, and most convenient practice course. Nothing comes close.

Coming from Kona this is a bit depressing to say the least!!!

[stuey c]

Hey guys, I may be only new to this site but I'm gonna throw the cat amongst the pidgeons here! I don't hold much to this 90% paddler 10% board theory. With all due respect you put Laird or Dave Kalama on a 12' and even an average but competent paddler on a good 18' and the guy on the 18' will flog them every single time. I also feel that too much emphasis is being placed on all this different boards for varying conditions stuff as well. My boards fly in the face of convention and I have vastly different opinions on downwind design as to what is currently considered the norm but what a boring old place the world would be if we all thought the same and we'd grow stale and never get anywhere! The cornerstone of my designs is resistance or rather lack of. The board with the least resistance will paddle quicker, thereby picking up runners easier and staying on them longer and let's face it, who wants to paddle when you can ride! This is why I firmly believe that planing hulls are not the way to go. Even in your ideal Hawaiian conditions you are probably only riding swells maybe 10 to 15% of the time and this is the only time that a planing hull is working to it's optimum. So for the remaining 85 to 90% of the time you are dragging an inefficient hull around the ocean. In my opinion what you are after is a board that disturbs the least amount of water with the longest narrowest footprint as is practically possible with the least  wetted surface area (which equates to drag) that you can manage. This is what my Penetrator designs are based on. Their low resistance hulls will glide through the water requiring minimal energy to power them hence picking up even the slightest of runners and staying on them longer due to this low energy requirement and there you are, riding as opposed to paddling, much better fun! Anyway that is where my boards are at. Those of you who are down our way early next year for the Noosa Festival will see them in action and have the chance to have a demo ride on what I am positive are the fastest ocean going sups in the world otherwise you'll have to wait another 12 months till my buddy and chief test pilot Woogie Marsh shows the world what the Penetrator 572 is capable of when he hopefully wins Molokai! Stay tuned and thankyou for reading.........Stuey Campbell