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Use Your Hips

Started by PonoBill, December 13, 2010, 11:42:24 PM

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PonoBill

Dave has an interesting new post on his blog: http://www.davidkalama.com/2010/12/14/use-your-hips/ about an element of paddling on stand up boards that DOESN'T come from canoe paddling technique. Using your hips to add power to your stroke. This is a new one on me. I don't do this, and I don't think Dave said anything about this when he was coaching me--though I can't be sure, learning from Dave is a bit like drinking from a firehose.

After reading the article I tried to simulate the movement standing in the living room holding my Malama paddle--just trying to get a mental handle on the movement. Diane caught me doing it and is VERY amused. She's convinced I'm having amorous feelings for my wood paddle. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Got to try this tomorrow.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

pdxmike

It always amazes me how Dave Kalama's paddling advice always applies as much to swimming (which I know more about than paddling) as to paddling.  With swimmers, especially flyers and breaststrokers, the best ones really engage their hips into their strokes. People who don't can have strong leg and arm movements, but their middles are dead, and there is no transfer of power through their body.  When swimmers engage their hips (and entire cores) you see a wave of power pulse through each stroke cycle--there is a smooth transition from the movements of the arms through to the legs. 

Where you really see it is with fishes.  The energy pulses from their heads through their spines into their tails, and one flick shoots them ahead.   

So I'm looking forward to paddling after reading it, and in the meantime swimming with his advice in mind.   

And I do know that fish don't actually have hips.

JonathanC

#2
Do mermaids have hips? ;)

Another fantastic article from Dave, love having something new to digest and try to incorporate into my paddling.

Anyway, we recently had a training clinic with Woogie Marsh before our Great Melbourne Paddle event a week ago. A couple of the things that Woogie said struck a chord.

When I teach people I always tell them to plant the paddle and imagine it is going into wet concrete, so it is effectively fixed and you pull yourself up to it. Woogie had a different idea, he suggested that you imagine there are poles sticking up out of the water every three metres, when you plant the paddle imagine it is a pole and you simply pull yourself up to fixed pole then you reach forward and grab the next pole. Sounds strange but on the water I like the mental image it creates. It also helps reinforce the idea that the paddle shaft should be vertical (at least in one plane) when you plant it.

The other thing that Woogie highlighted is the 'glide' phase of the stroke, something I know I hadn't been thinking about. When you do consciously consider the 'glide' phase it calms everything down and prepares you for the plant and stroke coming up, seems to let me position and prepare my body for that next phase. He said that if you need to increase your stroke rate simply decrease the glide time, everything else stays the same.  

When you paddle with Woogie he has this distinctive, smooth, calm Tahitian style - looks like he could keep it up for ever, probably could! In the race he was really pushed and in fact pipped by one of our local guys, but his technique just didn't waver - very impressive to watch.

supuk

i saw this vid the outher day and did the hip movement. definitely replicates the fish movement mentioned above and keeping the movement through the hole body the guy on the right coming toward the screen looks like its is a lot more pronounced.
and i know its not quite the same and only a short spint and they can handle a lot more power as the C.o.G is alot lower but look at the size of the blades and where there top hand is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5oG_QKzfPI&feature=player_embedded#!

SoCalSupper

you should see The Incredible Mr. Limpets stroke-Unreal! ;D
United States Air Force Para-Rescue motto "That others may live"

headmount

Ditto what PDX says about swimming and hips.  Recently I've been working with someone on their swim stroke and getting the guy to kick from his hips with straight legs is the biggest challenge.  With paddling I have always imagined it like a boxer punching from the hips.

refthimos

Quote from: charlieuk on December 14, 2010, 03:07:55 AM
i saw this vid the outher day and did the hip movement. definitely replicates the fish movement mentioned above and keeping the movement through the hole body the guy on the right coming toward the screen looks like its is a lot more pronounced.
and i know its not quite the same and only a short spint and they can handle a lot more power as the C.o.G is alot lower but look at the size of the blades and where there top hand is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5oG_QKzfPI&feature=player_embedded#!

Thanks for posting this video.  I can't understand a word they are saying but I can sure see the way these guys are thrusting their hips forward in order to increase their reach.  Not sure you can get away with this technique on an SUP due to balance issues but definitely worth playing with out on the water.

paddlesurf.net

Amazing how narrow those boats are!

808

#8
This is another valuable tool I came across.  ;D ;D

Pureadrenalin

From practicing different techniques in different conditions I can honestly say this method is very effective when paddling in tough upwind conditions. The reason is you can use the bigger muscles to get a really nice forward momentum without burning out so quickly. We been practicing this for the last year in the sticky current conditions and tough upwind areas on our downwind run and it is highly effective when you know when to apply this technique.

Argosi

Thanks for the video of the C1 race. I know a local guy that used to race those canoes and he's now focused on SUP. He's the fastest SUP paddler around here by far. I noticed that he uses his hips and legs a lot. It seems a bit counter intuitive when thinking about long distance efficiency of the Tahitian stroke, but I think it's faster.

When I tried getting much more hip and leg action into my stroke, I noticed that it was my cardio fitness that was limiting me. Before, with a more traditional stroke, it was my upper body muscles that were limiting me. That tells me that the hip/leg action is allowing me to use my whole body more, resulting in less local fatigue in my upper body.

You need to be very fit to keep this stroke up in a longer distance race. If you can, you'll be faster.

pdxmike

Quote from: JonathanC on December 14, 2010, 02:03:53 AM
When I teach people I always tell them to plant the paddle and imagine it is going into wet concrete, so it is effectively fixed and you pull yourself up to it. Woogie had a different idea, he suggested that you imagine there are poles sticking up out of the water every three metres, when you plant the paddle imagine it is a pole and you simply pull yourself up to fixed pole then you reach forward and grab the next pole.
I guess you could say Woogie is saying to "pole yourself forward".

There is actually a swimming drill for backstroke that has the same principle behind it.  You swim in a pool close to the lane line.  When you reach back with the arm that's close to the lane line, you actually grab it and pull yourself forward, instead of pulling through the water.  It shows you exactly how it feels to grab a point and pull yourself past it, because that's exactly what you're doing.  Then you try to recreate that feeling doing the normal stroke. 

The best swimmers look like they are grabbing wet concrete--no slippage of their hands at all.  It seems true with paddlers also.

CMC

I love Woogies and Daves description.  I have just joined a new canoe club and have been working like crazy on my technique in ready for the new season.

Along with that I have been working hard on my SUP technique.  One thing that has worked for me is consciously working to reach the ideas that Dave and Woogie teach which are common canoe paddling ideals.  1/ Making sure my bottom hand moves horizontally NOT VERTICALLY by reaching forwards after the top hand drives the catch untwisting the torso, pulling back in the shoulder etc etc.  2/ Making sure my top hand is moving at the same speed as the bottom hand and trying to keep it above the bottom to keep the paddle vertical on both planes for as long as possible.  The top hand coming down and across slightly to stabilise this position.  Not pushing with the top hand.

It is much harder to paddle this way as your paddle holds the water the whole time and there is no easy spots but it is much faster and is what Woogie is describing as pulling your self past a vertical pole.

The hip engagement on SUP I found can be visualised by trying to push your foot on that side towards the paddle blade which should be under the rail of the board and the shaft as close to the rail as possible.  This keeps a closer center of gravity, allows more power and relieves surface tension under the board allowing it to slide more easily.  Imagine if you will that you are trying to unweight the nose of your board at the same time to allow it to lift easily out of the water with the speed and upwards force of the paddle.  I try to lift my toes off the deck pad to let this happen along with standing more upright to not lean and press the nose downwards.

It's great when you try this stuff and feel yourself getting faster all of the time....

mrl

I am still a bit confused. When paddling on the right side, I rotate to extend my reach this puts my right hip forward. As I stroke I start to un-wind wich means my hip is going toward the stern of the board. Is this correct? At what point would the right hip start to travel forward again

PonoBill

Ive been playing with this, and it's a lot less confusing if you don't worry about which hip and when--I got all tangled up when I tried to do that. All I'm doing is concentrating on pulling my body towards the paddle. Makes a huge difference. When I pull the paddle towards me I push my ass out. When I pull my body to the paddle I push my ass in.

Weird.

I'll tell you one more thing, it kicks your ass in a hurry. Half an hour of that and my gut is burning and my thighs are jello. Gotta be a good workout, I've NEVER had that happen before, even on elliptical machines.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.