My article on transitioning from SUP to surfski

[Off-Shore]

Awesome piece of writing and having spent a few hours in a Surfski, you describe all the initial steps and fears well.. particularly getting back in when tired and balance issues. Thank you Headmount.. I am sure this piece will convince many people to try the Surfski. If you are one of those, make sure you start on the widest most stable one you can find.

For those of us who downwind SUP, I think the key is that if you are a downwind nut, you can either go out on a SUP in marginal conditions and slog your guts out for a few glides (which I do a lot), or take a Surfski out in the same conditions and have a blast.. My main issue is that I am not flexible enough to stay in the Neutral position without a lot of effort, and therefore am constantly leaning back too far, which means less stability and control... and darn fear that if I fall in again I may not be able to get back in. I would have to figure out how to correct this with lots of stretching and yoga or something before I could really enjoy the Surfski... so out on my SUP in marginal conditions I will continue to go.. and the Starboard Ace 14' ain't a bad board to do that on. An unlimited one would be even better.. but a surfski would be best.

[nalu-sup]

Being the type of person who asks really stupid questions based on unlimited ignorance, I have a question about the surfski. I surfed waveskis for many years, and a major key to happiness was having a bullet proof eskimo roll in "combat conditions" like being rolled around in the white water of a good sized wave. Many waveskis are much harder to roll back up than kayaks, so it was quite a challenge to perfect, but once you have it, you can spin back up like a top using the momentum from the tip over to bring you right back up. Would it be possible to roll a surfski back up? The one requirement would be adding a seat belt like on a waveski so that you would have the hip connection and power to make the roll, but if it worked, it would be a big energy and time saver. There is no question that all that volume and the relatively high seat height of the surfski might make a roll really challenging, but I am wondering if anyone has ever tried. Just looking at the volume, it would seem like they would want to right themselves once the passenger is out, so that tendency might help, in comparison to a waveski, which prefers to stay upside down and resists being rolled back over. Many of us found that the "back deck" roll worked better on waveskis than the more traditional kayak setups, so that might be true on the surfskis as well.
Just a crazy idea, but I am wondering if anyone has ever tried.

[headmount]

Being the type of person who asks really stupid questions based on unlimited ignorance, I have a question about the surfski. I surfed waveskis for many years, and a major key to happiness was having a bullet proof eskimo roll in "combat conditions" like being rolled around in the white water of a good sized wave. Many waveskis are much harder to roll back up than kayaks, so it was quite a challenge to perfect, but once you have it, you can spin back up like a top using the momentum from the tip over to bring you right back up. Would it be possible to roll a surfski back up? The one requirement would be adding a seat belt like on a waveski so that you would have the hip connection and power to make the roll, but if it worked, it would be a big energy and time saver. There is no question that all that volume and the relatively high seat height of the surfski might make a roll really challenging, but I am wondering if anyone has ever tried. Just looking at the volume, it would seem like they would want to right themselves once the passenger is out, so that tendency might help, in comparison to a waveski, which prefers to stay upside down and resists being rolled back over. Many of us found that the "back deck" roll worked better on waveskis than the more traditional kayak setups, so that might be true on the surfskis as well.
Just a crazy idea, but I am wondering if anyone has ever tried.

I know about the move you're talking about.  I had been invited to do significant rapids in a kayak on the Snake river many years ago.  I practiced in a pool to get that roll and could finally do it but slow, and in the pool.  So I bailed out on the whitewater trip.  The guys who invited me were fanatics, I knew their type.  They were the same guys that took me off Corbetts Couloir at Jackson Hole in a blizzard.  "Just follow us," they said.  The snow was deep but the drop was real. 

So to answer your question, it might be possible but even if I got it down practicing close to shore, the real deal is out there in strong winds, where practicing isn't really something you want to do.  Like you said, the set up is also different, higher out of the water, no strap.  And if you're strapped in, well that might not end well.  But the biggest issue is length.  Kayaks range from 6-10 feet and rolling them has got to be much easier than rolling, let's say my 18 foot surfski.  And 18' is where they only start.  They grow as long as 21' with more 'elite' sufskis.  The differences are problematic.

There are many guys with decades of experience in heavy downwind conditions and they aren't talking about a kayak roll in a ski.  So I'm not trying to re invent the wheel.  It's amazing how a little fear will propel you back into the ski fairly fast.

[surf4food]

I agree with everyone else this was a great read.  I have been interested in at least trying an OC1 and/or surfski and this article gave a further shot in the arm triggering even more interest.  Just kind of hard to find a starting point.  I live in San Diego and we have Mission Bay which would be a perfect learning venue but no one rents and/or gives lessons for OC1 or surfski.  Boats are just too expensive and fragile to do that.  In fact the only time I ever see them around here is during the annual Hanano race in January.  I suppose next year I can approach someone and ask.  I'm guessing and OC1 would be a bit easier to start but ultimately a ski will be more exciting.  Then again that's why it would be great to try both.

[surf4food]

Here is my dumb ignorant question.  I can see why long sleek narrow boats make better downwind vehicles for gliding but doesn't the standing position give some advantage by virtue of being a human sail?

[covesurfer]

Here is my dumb ignorant question.  I can see why long sleek narrow boats make better downwind vehicles for gliding but doesn't the standing position give some advantage by virtue of being a human sail?

Yes, you get more push from the wind on your body when you're standing, no question. Of course, that's only an advantage when you're going downwind. It can be a liability otherwise.

SUP's are not as efficient as skis or OC's. So, while there way be more windage on a standup, it's not as important when you are paddling a more efficient craft. This is how I think of it: Put two paddlers that have similar abilities in OC/ski and on standup on the same downwinder and the paddler in the boat will finish first. The gliding advantage is more important than having more exposure to get pushed by the wind.

Someone else can probably explain this more elegantly but my crude observation from having paddled both OC1 and standup is that the SUP has to overcome more skin drag than a boat. Gliding rules.

[SUPdw]

I agree with everyone else this was a great read.  I have been interested in at least trying an OC1 and/or surfski and this article gave a further shot in the arm triggering even more interest.  Just kind of hard to find a starting point.  I live in San Diego and we have Mission Bay which would be a perfect learning venue but no one rents and/or gives lessons for OC1 or surfski.  Boats are just too expensive and fragile to do that.  In fact the only time I ever see them around here is during the annual Hanano race in January.  I suppose next year I can approach someone and ask.  I'm guessing and OC1 would be a bit easier to start but ultimately a ski will be more exciting.  Then again that's why it would be great to try both.

Check out SDCKT San Diego Canoe Kayak Team. I bought my Epic V8 from Chris Barlow, they had a demo day, I got a quick lesson, fell in love, and bought a boat. The team trains kids for Olympic type of races, but they have a bunch of SurfSkis. I don't know the details (I was living in LA at the time), but I think you can join as a member and have access to the boats. Their boathouse is on Fiesta Island rd.

[surf4food]

I agree with everyone else this was a great read.  I have been interested in at least trying an OC1 and/or surfski and this article gave a further shot in the arm triggering even more interest.  Just kind of hard to find a starting point.  I live in San Diego and we have Mission Bay which would be a perfect learning venue but no one rents and/or gives lessons for OC1 or surfski.  Boats are just too expensive and fragile to do that.  In fact the only time I ever see them around here is during the annual Hanano race in January.  I suppose next year I can approach someone and ask.  I'm guessing and OC1 would be a bit easier to start but ultimately a ski will be more exciting.  Then again that's why it would be great to try both.

Check out SDCKT San Diego Canoe Kayak Team. I bought my Epic V8 from Chris Barlow, they had a demo day, I got a quick lesson, fell in love, and bought a boat. The team trains kids for Olympic type of races, but they have a bunch of SurfSkis. I don't know the details (I was living in LA at the time), but I think you can join as a member and have access to the boats. Their boathouse is on Fiesta Island rd.

Cool.  Thanks SUPdw.