News:

Stand Up Paddling, Foil, SUP Foiling, Foil Surfing, Wing Surf, Wing Surfing, Wing Foiling.  This is your forum!

Main Menu

Hard board for flat water paddling

Started by powermi, April 23, 2016, 11:28:01 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

powermi

Hello, I am a 33 aged paddler from Spain, my height is 1,90 mts and my weight 80. As I am living away from the sea, I had in the last 2 years two touring inflatable Starboard Boards and now a 14 x 26 inflatable Racer Starboard.
As I use to paddle alone for recreational and fitness proposes, I am considering grabbing a hard board  with the limit of 12,6  for flat water paddling and keep the inflatable for the trips to the sea.
And I am wondering if there would be a good option on the market wo improve my speed and technique. would be a 12,6 x 25 Starboard race faster than my 14' inflatable? any other option to consider?

thanks.

LeeBee

Per my earlier post today look at the  Mistral Slipstream. Pictures attached.
2019 Mistral Stealth 17' 6" x 24"
2019 Mistral Interceptor 17' 6" x 24"
2017 NSP Ninja 14' x 25"
2016 JP Australia All-Around 11' 8" x 31"
Stellar S16S surf ski
Kai Barton ARES OC-1 outrigger canoe

photofr

14x25 allstar (rigid board) will be more stable and faster than your 14x26 inflatable board.
12 6 rigid will be slower than your 14x26 inflatable board.

Especially for your height and weight, I would recommend a rigid board (only because you already have experience, AND you already have inflatable boards)

I think you will be amazed at how slow the 12 6 rigid is with your weight.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

I'm not so sure that a 12-6 rigid would be slower than a 14x26 inflatable. It would likely depend on the particular design of the board and the conditions you are in. Rigid boards give a nicer paddling experience, and are generally better in tricky conditions (chop, side winds, upwind, downwind, surf, etc). I'd far rather be on a rigid 12-6 than an inflatable 14 if I was downwinding, or coming in and out of surf, for instance.

powermi

Thanks for the replies, the point is that I could only store a 12'6 board, a 14' would be impossible. I really like inflatables for traveling, but as I only am paddling flat water in my place I was considering a fast thing to train in speed an technique.
For example with my 14' inflatable is quite hard for me to beat the 4 knts speed, I don't know if a hard 12'6 could do it on my hands.
I'll keep the inflatable in any case, as I go to the sea 4 times per year and I love coastal cruising and paddling on remote areas where you can only access on foot.

Area 10

Oh yes, you should be able to go faster than 4 knots, for sure, with the right technique. Even an old git like me can average over 5 mph on a 12-6.

photofr

I have put my 12'6x24" rigid board (designed for flat water) against my 14'x28" inflatable board (also designed for flat water) and the result is VERY CLEAR after 100's of miles of paddling on both.

Hands down, my 14x28 iSUP Racer is faster, and compares to the stability of a 14x26 rigid or 12'6x27 rigid. Add to this the factor of a heavier paddler, and the difference will be even greater. Remember, I weight like 130 pounds.

Storage may be another problem all together... but experience has thought me that when there's a will, there's a way. So good luck to you.

Recommendations: I'd get a rigid if you can afford it, but I'd definitely keep the 14x26 iSUP as well if possible. They stopped making it this year, though they may re-introduce it next year.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

photofr

@powermi:
I read your message again...
5 knots = 9.25 kmh
If that's your average speed, you are doing very well on your inflatable board.
If you that's your max speed on the inflatable board, I wouldn't worry about it.

Truth be told, work on your average speed and endurance first, and then you will see that working on your max speed is a lot easier than you think.

I am not trying to talk you out of buying a new board, but I would feel horrible if you bought something slower, or something that would allow you to gain 1 to 2% in speed... when in fact, working on your technique will always yield better results. Typically, working on someone's technique will have your average speed improve by well over 10% (15-20% in many cases)... and yes, same improvements with an inflatable board.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

powermi

Thanks a lot for all the replies. I really love inflatables, in fact I am considering buy another one for family and begin in surfing (maybe a redpaddle 9'8), the point is that I was wondering if a hard 12'6 board (that it is the maximum I could store) could be faster than mi inflatable.

I was looking to improve my technique too, as my average speed could be something close to 3 knots. Any suggestion of videos too see or books to read? I am trying to follow the Kalama style (breathe and reach). I've seen lots of faster paddlers but some of them have an awful technique, they are fast just for 1 mile, that's why I am looking forward to improve my average speed.

photofr

You can watch videos, look at photos, but in the end, you'll also need someone to take photos or videos of yourself to compare, analyse and improve your technique.

To make it easier, and if you can, find a good SUP instructor, spend time with him or her, and then spend a bit of time working on those new things. Soon there after, spend more time with the instructor, and repeat the process. YOU WILL BE AMAZED at the results.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

hbsteve

For the first five minutes of every session focus on technique, without concern for speed.  That will set you up for the rest of your session. 

Area 10

I think Larry Cain is probably giving the best free advice on paddling technique available on the internet at the moment. It's very technical and detailed, but worth persevering with.

powermi

So to sum up, folks... If I am going to invest in a hard board then I should consider purchasing a 14' one. With? Sic X or Starboard Sprint / allstar?
I could grab a brand new, never used, 2015 Starboard 14x23,5 Ace for just 900 eur. would it be a nice board?

Thanks

PonoBill

Challenging, but good. You could be fast on it if you can handle the balance issue.

For what it's worth, the conjunction of right paddle and best technique can yield about 10-15 percent speed improvement. The key element is matching your paddle to the cadence you naturally maintain. I can realize a 10 percent speed gain using a Konihi 84 over the Konihi 95, but I can't maintain it. as soon as I lose concentration my speed drops dramatically. 

With longer, high skin friction boards the cadence is even more important because the board coasts down quicker and you're starting your acceleration with each stroke at a lower speed. Higher cadence and faster recovery yields a big dividend.

Bottom line, you might see a bigger gain by adapting your stroke and paddle characteristics to the board you have rather than changing boards. Then again, if you're a small person but naturally low cadence you might benefit greatly from even a 12'6" hard board. They can live with high-power, lower cadence because they accelerate easier and if you're sufficiently below hull speed, they decelerate slower.

I know that sounds confusing, but the relationship of length to speed is fairly complex.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Eagle

Would suggest a 2016 SB All Star 12'-6" x 25".  That would complement your 14x26" SB inflatable quite nicely and fit in your space.  The size of the 14x23.5 Ace is quite large and the board does tip a fair amount - so best to demo before buying that one.  Paddlers often either love or hate the Ace.  I quite like it as it is very fast in chop - but the size is simply a no go for us - just too massive to be stored on our boat or at home.

Insofar as improving technique - tons of free info on the web.  Just watch a few videos and copy the pros.  Best is to simply get on the water with a GPS and track your speeds over set distances.  Stack your shoulders - plant and pull with a vertical shaft while torquing your core - and get a quick recovery.  Intervals on the water help a bunch as well.  In no time your average speed will go up.  Also make sure your paddle is all carbon and lightweight - and sized correctly for you.  We spent $320 all in on 2 new SB Enduros last year - and those work perfectly fine.  As well a Werner Trance 84 adjustable we used on a demo day -worked perfectly fine as well.

Just make sure the paddle allows you to go 100% with no soreness - and that should be about right.  But probably the most important aspect to improve is your strength to weight ratio.  Improve your strength - or lower your weight - or do both - and your speed will increase proportionately.  Most important though is to always have fun out there - and the speed will follow.

If you go for a 14 - then the 2016 All Star CS 25 or 23 are excellent choices.  Pricey though - so best to wait for a good deal.

http://star-board-sup.com/2016/boards/12-6-x-25-all_star/
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23