Leap of Faith - SIC FX 14????

[Muskoka SUP]

Good point area10.  If I were worried about the quality of a boards build, and want to minimize the odds of a lemon, I'd be inclined to buy a Jimmy Lewis.  YMMV. 
But yeah, I guess if you want a particular board that much, then it's always a bit of a gamble. 

[yugi]

^ can't fault that statement.

Speaking of JL how about the new Ocean Racer coming out? Saw some pics of it recently on his Facetube page.

[robon]

Does anyone know if Bark and SIC are going to offer widths in these new boards in anything wider than 25 or 26 inches? I'm also wondering about construction options. Straight up carbon or is there options? The shapes look great, but I'm thinking 27 or 28" wide being the magic number for 200 pound+ paddlers looking to cover long distances. I'm kinda limited to a one board quiver right now, so trying to tick as many boxes as possible.

[Area 10]

I guess that with the Surftech Bark boards I hope that even if the outside shell isn't as durable as some, at least the core is quality. I've seen the cores of some of the high end boards (including SB, Coreban, SIC) and I was quite shocked at how much the core resembled the cheapest kind of packing foam you can get. I guess that if you want light then a cheap way of achieving that is to have lots of air, and that means big beads with air between them, maybe?

To my untrained eye, this does look a lot better quality than most of the cores I've seen from other brands:



But I'm no expert.

[kelvinpumba]

Been looking at both the vapor and the new jimmy lewis sidewinder. Both look great shape but not sure which one. Which is most durable make. Would the darker board have issue in heat.

[Area 10]

Been looking at both the vapor and the new jimmy lewis sidewinder. Both look great shape but not sure which one. Which is most durable make. Would the darker board have issue in heat.

All brands produce the odd lemon, but generally speaking the Jimmy Lewis boards are probably better made than possibly any other similarly-priced board. They are made in a different factory from most of the others.

Best to keep any board out of direct sunlight if you live in a hot place. Yes, darker boards get a lot hotter than light colour ones.

That sidewinder is a lovely looking board. But I've got a Coreban Dart in carbon that is a similar exposed carbon and so is black. After 20 mins in the summer sun I can boil an egg on it. It is literally too hot to touch. Fortunately I live in a cold country and it doesn't get sunny often, so it doesn't matter too much to me. But you'd better buy a board bag or cover for that Sidewinder if you live somewhere with lots of sun, I reckon. It's great to see that it will come in wider widths than eg. the FX or Vapor though.

[Eagle]

So the question is, how do you tell if it's a lemon *before* you hand over your cash? And once you have bought it, how can you prove that the board is too fragile rather than it being you that is too careless?

Maybe ask them if it *should* pressure dent under "normal" use.  If they say no -> then ask them to try themselves *before* shipping it out to you.

After you buy it -> do your own thumb test before fully unwrapping it.

Our Pro-Elite Dominator dents far too easily compared to any other brand.  And would not buy another Pro-Elite unless that issue has been rectified.   

[Muskoka SUP]

Good idea Eagle.  Even better would be (if possible) to purchase ones boards from a local dealer.. And have them check it with a thumb test before you even pay up.. Any store should have confidence in the product they're selling, and as well, welcome your spending the$ locally to support them. 

[karl]

I guess that with the Surftech Bark boards I hope that even if the outside shell isn't as durable as some, at least the core is quality. I've seen the cores of some of the high end boards (including SB, Coreban, SIC) and I was quite shocked at how much the core resembled the cheapest kind of packing foam you can get. I guess that if you want light then a cheap way of achieving that is to have lots of air, and that means big beads with air between them, maybe?

To my untrained eye, this does look a lot better quality than most of the cores I've seen from other brands:



But I'm no expert.

The problem is not an inert super fused bit of EPS soaking up water. When it's encased with fibreglass/carbon, airtight, with a pressure differential, and being used, it will act like a suction pump, and take in water when dinged as it flexes. More tightly fused EPS beads is better, but it will still take on water.

[Area 10]

Sure, but at least it's better, right? And I'd hope that using a good quality core would bring other benefits in the construction process too (for instance greater precision in the builds, maybe easier to get a good bond between foam and glass). But again, I'm no expert.

The problem is that premium brand boards are so damn expensive these days that you want them to last. You want a tried-and-tested design that will perform well against the opposition even in a couple of years time, and you want to to be built to last. Gone are the days of changing your board every season for most people (unless you are DJ!). They are just too expensive and the resale values are too shaky (principally because the major windsurf brands keep flooding the market with "one-year wonders" that are obsolete 6 months after purchase).

In this context it is a disaster if you board takes on a lot of water. It will likely never be the same. A friend of mine bought an All Star. Within 12 weeks of normal use it had taken on 3 litres of water through small construction imperfections around the scupper holes. It took many weeks to get the water out and the board was never going to be the same. Now "rubbing is racing" as we know, thanks to the aggressive antics of Connor and Kai etc (who don't have to pay for their boards), and so anyone who races often and seriously can expect to pick up plenty of dings. If when you do, you are going to take in a lot of water, then this constitutes a serious financial risk. I can't afford to pay 4000 dollars US for a board that is almost a write-off under normal use after 12 weeks!

So I want a board that is a well thought-out and carefully developed design that has longevity, and for the board to be built with long term ownership in mind. Well, at least 2 or 3 seasons, anyway. The current construction of many of these boards seems to me to barely fit for purpose. If you buy a board that is advertised as a race-board and race it normally, then it should be able to stay in one piece, unless an extraordinary event occurs.

I was downwinding a while back, and a local shaper was loading his board on his van when a gust of wind blew it off the roof. It flew some distance and landed on Tarmac, tail-first. We all gasped but the shaper didn't seem particularly bothered. When he picked up his board we saw why - it barely had a scratch on it! By contrast, if I even lay my premium-brand carbon DW boards down on a stoney beach without great caution I end up with either a compression dent or a hole that if I don't notice it, could lead to the board being a write-off.

So, I think we need to be sending a message loud and clear to the brands. If you are going to charge us these extremely high prices, then you'd better make sure that the board is going to last, both design-wise and construction-wise. I believe it can be done, it's just that they are not sufficiently motivated by the customers (i.e. us) to do it. 

[Muskoka SUP]

On that note, and pertinent to the OP, note that SIC has taken a step in the right direction by introducing the use of Innegra in their board range - to reinforce the nose, tail and rails.  Whether this is preemptive, or a reaction to too many warrantee claims - or both, is arguable. Either way, it's a great start.  Looks like Rideordies soon to arrive FX14, and my not soon enough (May) Bullet 17 will both be less of a gamble and more of a sure bet as far as trustworthy construction goes... 

[Area 10]

Wow - MR is reading my mind again!

I didn't know about the additions of innegra for 2016. I'd swear that SIC have the conversations between me and my buddies bugged. Great idea, well done SIC!

[SUPflorida]

Not sure if it's the exact same thing but I was buying closed cell eps all the way back to the late 80's from Doug Wright in Tomahawk Industrial Park in Indiatlatic Fl. Just down the way from Resin research. I used it for my windsurf surf shapes. It was a good compromise for smaller boards. Closed cell (didn't absorb water), it was blown with a special technique that gave it a "grain" to it so it was more compression resistant from pressure exerted from the deck and bottom (very resistant to pressure dings), didn't require a divinycell wrap. Held fin box/mast track/ foots trap plugs well without having to inlay higher density foam for them.

Density was 2.5 lbs cu/ft if I rember right. If I wanted max performance I  would go with a full divinycell wrap over 1lbs. Open Cell EPS. It would come out about 4-5 lbs lighter than the closed cell. The closed cell foam was also a lot harder to work with.
But again for surf shapes in the 70-100 liter range it was tough and cheaper to build being able to just glass it with 2 layers of 6oz S2 glass and a 6 oz  deck patch rather than the time and expense of divinycell wrap and vacuum bagging.

If they are using that type foam now they must have made some major strides in reducing the weight of the foam while still keeping the strength because a board of 250-300 liters would weigh 30-35+ lbs easy using the stuff I had.

It's been a long time ago.I believe Dow Chemical was making it, but stopped when wide spread acceptance didn't happen. Or that was what I was told later when I could no longer get it from Doug. Greg L. was building a lot of really tough boards out of the stuff at the time.

[TN_SUP]

Another kudos to SIC for their great handles, great for carrying and they allow you to easily lock the board.

[Argosi]

My business is product development for major brands, and all I can say is that the most successful brands get the right balance of what I call "fashion" which is cosmetic, and innovation which is structural and technical. Few brands or companies manage to get this right, but those that do succeed in the long term. I thought SB had this and was a SB junkie for a while.. now I am not so sure. I think SIC and Bark and interestingly RedPaddle (as a iSUP-only) brand have this.

Just reading this now - hopping back in the thread a bit...
Just to add some perspective on Starboard - I now own the Ace and the Sprint. This is 2/3 of their current race board lineup. Both those boards have seen only slight design modifications over the past several years.

The Sprint goes back to 2013. They added more volume to the rear side walls in 2014 (significant improvement), then made the board narrower in 2015. The 2016 has no changes at all. It's a focused flat water speed design and for that purpose, really delivers.

The Ace goes back even further to about 2010 - called the New back then. There have been only very minor changes over the years and the board is essentially the same as it was back then other than the small tweaks that have been made. For those that can ride it well, it's the fastest 14' downwind board in 25mph or less. It's also one of the fastest boards in mixed chop and upwind. 

It seems to me that when Starboard has a great design, they're smart enough (in most cases) to stick with it.

The All Star, on the other hand has seen 2 major redesigns since its inception in 2013. The 2013 was more suited for mixed conditions, the 2014-2015s were flat water focused, and the 2016 goes back to more of an all-water board. However, in my opinion, the All Star has never quite nailed its design mandate as well as the Ace and Sprint, so I can see why Starboard has been messing with the design. The 2016 All Star looks promising though.

The 2015 Race seemed to be an unnecessary board and it was a god move to blend the positive features of the Race into the 2016 All Star.