Fastest of the fast?

[stoneaxe]

That's a helluva gauntlet to throw down Stuey. Can't wait to see how it works out.

[Tree]

I don't know who erased my former comment but ... Lets not get ahead of ourselves there buddy. 

[Admin]

I don't know who erased my former comment but...

Treestand,

I do erase posts with insults.  It rarely comes up here, but there is really no need for that, and in any event it doesn't further the conversation. 

You can make your point without the jab.  If you think that Laird for instance on a 12 foot...oh, say...Laird board would smoke an average solid paddler on an 18 foot light weight downwider race board then make your case to Stuey.  I am sure he will be intersted in your comments.

[Kaweeka]

"That's a helluva gauntlet to throw down Stuey. Can't wait to see how it works out."

It has been my observation that in all ocean related activties when the Australians throw down a gauntlet - good things happen!  And not just for Australia - for everybody.

Then again the Maui boys (and girls) are coming up with great new stuff every week.  Who knows what the hot guys come next Molokai.  It might be called stand up but it is hardly standing still!

[stuey c]

I don't know who erased my former comment but ... Lets not get ahead of ourselves there buddy. 

Little bit touchy there Tree Stand. I merely stated my opinion, you obviously have yours. I'm home having lunch and thought I would check if I'd had any response. I have to get back to work as I'm busy putting the finishing touches on a new and much simplified steering system I've designed for downwinders, more specifically for my as yet unbeaten Penetrator. I'm sorry if my post offended you or anyone else for that matter, it was never my intention and I will further quantify my opinions when I get home tonight. For the record I've been shaping ocean equipment for 35 years and have roughly 20,000 boards under the belt, furthermore I've been building extremely fast racing yachts on and off for the past 25 years, if you think my opinions deserve insults then my e-mail address, unlike yours, is displayed. Go for your life..........buddy

[stoneaxe]

Well said Kaweeka. That was my point. I think we'll all be benefactors of some friendly competition. The fact that Stuey speaks with such confidence makes it all the more interesting. Like I said. I can't wait to see how it works out.

Stuey...is the Penetrator a displacement hull the full length? How stable is she? My biggest problem is a need for stability. I'm not in a position to pull the trigger on a distance board yet but i'm collecting info for that day.

[warped]

I also agree with Kaweeka and Stoneaxe.  Consumers always benefit from competition.  I think as more shapers start putting out downwind-specific boards, it'll push this sport to a higher level.  It'll be interesting to see where downwind racing goes as shapers start introducing new shapes and ideas.  This downwind/racing aspect of the sport is so new that I think it's unrealistic to say that the fastest boards have already been designed.  I think as shapers from all different parts of the world get involved with this, we'll really see this sport explode.  It'll also be fun to see the friendly rivalries form between paddlers/shapers from different continents/countries.  Of course, being from Hawaii, I'm most interested in seeing what guys like Mark Raaphorst, Bill Foote, Ed Angulo, the C4 guys etc. will come up with as the level of competition increases.  I'm sure we're going to see some mind blowing things.

Oh and for what it's worth, I still don't think an average or competant paddler on an 18' board could beat somebody like Dave Kalama on a 12' board.  Some paddlers are just on an entirely different level than the rest of us.   

[Dwight (DW)]

Thanks Admin.

Your efforts are what allow key industry people to participate in this forum.

As opposed to the poorly moderated kiteforum, where designers and key people are not able to post, or they are attacked and insulted.

In the early years of the kitesurfing, all the designers and key people participated in sharing knowledge on the forum. Those were some fun times. Like THIS forum is now.

[stuey c]

Well said Kaweeka. That was my point. I think we'll all be benefactors of some friendly competition. The fact that Stuey speaks with such confidence makes it all the more interesting. Like I said. I can't wait to see how it works out.

Stuey...is the Penetrator a displacement hull the full length? How stable is she? My biggest problem is a need for stability. I'm not in a position to pull the trigger on a distance board yet but i'm collecting info for that day.

Thanks Stoneaxe. Yes the Penetrator models are all displacement hulls for their entire length. Yes  the Penetrator is very stable but in a different way. With a flat bottom and more traditional rail the maximum righting moment is in the bolt upright position, once the rail is submerged that righting moment decreases. However with the Penetrator setup the bottom and rails are the reverse of a surfboard, the bottom is rounded and the bulk of the rails' volume is at the top, therefore in the upright position she feels a bit tippy. What happens though is the further you lean the board over the more the righting moment increases, just when you need it, hey! Another benefit of my design is that with a regular flat bottom and rails your entire width is in the water all the time (more wetted surface area) whereas the Penetrator which is only 26 1/2" wide anyway, once you take into account it's reverse shape rails, it's actual footprint is only 22'' and at 18'8'' that's one narrow planshape! "That's a helluva gauntlet to throw down" you've all said. Well picture the above craft with my test-pilot Woogie Marsh on board (who you yourselves have described as Australias' best Sup racer and who incidently has 2 Molokai 6-man titles to his credit). Is it any wonder I feel a little confident of his chances? For a little peek at the Penetrator 572s' test flight, have a look at the vid my son made, it's under, Best Paddle Stroke I Have Seen, in your forums..........Cheers Stoneaxe and I hope that money comes together for you so you can get a downwinder soon. A big thankyou to Admin and Kaweeka as well, I will continue to post here!........Stuey Campbell.......P.S. Once again I meant no disrespect whatsoever to either Dave Kalama or Laird Hamilton who is without question the greatest waterman the world has ever or is ever likely to see!

[Tree]

I wasn't attacking anyone just pointing out the fact that an average paddler is not going to be able to keep up with a world class athelete no matter what they're on.  I'm glad everyone is so nice to each other here, too bad this isn't the case in reality in the lineup... It must be because I am a New Englander or something but we are all born with a BS detector up here.

[Admin]

Even in your ideal Hawaiian conditions you are probably only riding swells maybe 10 to 15% of the time

Hi Stuey,

Good discussion. 

It may be a good idea to knock around what we are mean when we are saying riding swells.  My guess is that guys like Dave Kalama, doing 8.5 MPH (OK, its only Dave) over a 9.5 mile course are gliding just short of the whole time.  That doesn't mean he's not paddling, but just that he is in glides.  It seems like matching board speed to swell speed, and then occasionally being able to burst to get the next one is pretty crucial for our local runs.  To me it feels like the time between glides is where all the work is done and most of the time is lost.  At that point light weight feels like as big a factor as longer length.  It seems like for each person you get to a point where you are just carrying more board without easing that nasty in between period any more.   

In a video that was posted here a while back, Brian K from C4 was talking about gliding 85% of the time on a good run. 

I always appreciate a contrasting view.  What do you think?

[Byronmaui]

I wasn't attacking anyone just pointing out the fact that an average paddler is not going to be able to keep up with a world class athelete no matter what they're on.  I'm glad everyone is so nice to each other here, too bad this isn't the case in reality in the lineup... It must be because I am a New Englander or something but we are all born with a BS detector up here.

Amen in the house.

Aloha

Byron

P.S. The penetrator looks good and good luck with the Molokai.

[noa]

In favor of displacement type hulls, prone or knee paddleboarders all use them and they are damn fast. why would someone like Mitchell who constanly wins the Molokai (also on Aussie "Infront" boards) use displacement if it did not work ?

[stuey c]

I wasn't attacking anyone just pointing out the fact that an average paddler is not going to be able to keep up with a world class athelete no matter what they're on.  I'm glad everyone is so nice to each other here, too bad this isn't the case in reality in the lineup... It must be because I am a New Englander or something but we are all born with a BS detector up here.

You did attack me Tree Stand, or do you consider posting abusive comments behind the safety of the net, good form and what's this BS detector now? Grow up...........

[Kaweeka]

OK only one way to resolve this.  Stuey ship me a board, I will throw it on the top of the truck, catch the SuperFerry over to Kahului, and see if the boys will let me race them.  Will film the whole event for a segment of Funniest Home Videos and then carefully store the board  under the house for Woogie to use when he ventures up.  Say I know a waveski builder in Oz named Wookie - where do you guys get these names from?  

And let's all take a step back, drink a cold beer, and enjoy a sport where you really do not have to deal with pond scum of society unless of course you want too . . .  So many good breaks in out of the way places you can get to and when the surf is a bunch of blown out junk you hop on your downwind special and a crowded line up is the last thing on your mind.  When I paddle past the unsmiling ones at Tongg's after a smoking downwind run (as they wait for their 2 foot slop to come through . . . ) - well it just makes me smile!