Newbie upwind paddling problems

[GSXXTRS]

I'm having a lot of yaw issues when I paddle up wind or more often up current in the estuary I usually paddle in.  I get like three strokes in then I'm yawed out 30 degrees or so and have to switch sides.  It really kills any glide and feels like a lot of wasted energy.  Is this typical upwind problems?  I've tried a draw stroke or from my paddling back ground the reverse of a j stroke(sweep towards the the rail at paddle entry).  Not any big improvement so far.

As far as experience I have less than ten days in the water on SUP.  I've been a rec kayaker for a dozen years or so.  I haven't surfed in around 20 years and never was very good.  As far as physical attributes I have less than average balance and above average upper body strength and endurance (6'0" and 205lbs).

I ride a 08 Starboard SUPer 12'6" and use Werner Advantage paddle.  I've slid the sincle fin as far forward in the box as it will go.  I could, but haven't yet fixed the daggerboard.  Is that okay to use for upwind/upcurrent situations?   Or is it just a crutch for my poor technique?  LOL  Teaching myself isn't as easy as I thought it would be.

[stoneaxe]

Slide your fin as far back in the box as you can and put some pressure on the rail on the side your paddling to drop it down a bit. Make sure you are getting the shaft of your paddle right on the rail and that the shaft is vertical as you stroke. I have an older 12-6 and upwind I can get at least 15-20 strokes on one side without needing any correction....and even then its usually just a slight one (1 or 2 strokes). Don't worry...it will come.

What size fin are you using? If you have the 8" Drake that comes with it switching to a 10" or better will definitely help straighten her out. I wouldn't bother with the daggerboard.

[1tuberider]

Sounds to me like a technique problem and lack of time.

Side wind will be more difficult than head on with yawing.  Head on slows you down.  Try turning so the wind is on your side and when you can control direction then the skills improved.

Fwiw I do longer strokes to maintain the glide and keep direction.  If I find myself falling off course a slight back stoke to redirect or switch paddle hands.  I try to keep strokes equal in either hand to maintain muscle balance.

But keep practicing and try different technique, but the j stroke is my main go somewhere stroke. I am now riding a 9'o but I have the 12'6 and use it for mostly newbies and long distance paddling which I rarely do as the surf zone is my passion.

Skip the dagger board because once you have it figured out you won't need it.  The dagger board is more for light air wind surfing.

[GSXXTRS]

Thanks for the responses.  I'll keep working on paddle positioning but I'm pretty vertical right now.  And I'll avoid using the crutch. 

Interesting comment about fin positioning.  I'll give it shot.  The only really experienced person I've spent any amount of time talking to was a SurfTech rep at a demo.  He was the one who told me to try and move the fin forward.

[SchUP]

I'm sorry to be a "debbie downer" but upwind paddling is awful.  I wouldn't have a lot of expectations on getting any glides, unless you have a swell where you can catch some backsides -- and even that would take a little experience for proficiency.  For me, anyway, my back gets sore after going upwind too long. 

Since you've only got 10days under your belt, you'll have a lot more fun and success on really flat days.  Get your balance down and your core muscles in gear -- time on the water & patience, my friend!

[Rogue Wave]

As stoneaxe mentioned, try a bigger fin.

Small fins hook up well when the board is moving quickly, but when you're going slowly, they don't create enough lift to offset the yawing.

Chop really slows you down too, and a fin with more surface area definitely helps.

Don't go too long because it will create it's own problems by making the board tippier -- a swept back fin with lots of surface area will be the ticket.

[GSXXTRS]

I went with a RFC 10" fin.  The Drake fin actually measured like 9 1/4 but had significantly less cross section.  But conditions were so rough I really couldn't evaluate the effectiveness of the fin.  I paddled close to 2 miles each way.  With the tide going out into an approx. 15k wind from my front nnw wind was more work but also more stable than returning against the current with the wind over my right shoulder at around 25 knots.  The chop was considerable and about the same time I figured I was ready to tackle open ocean(about 5 minutes from the dock and my truck) I actually fell because of the cross chop.   The first time I've fallen since my second session.

[1tuberider]

I did not think the fin would do much.  My 12'6  is set up with original fins including thrusters which I prefer for the surf zone as to a single fin set up.  For fin placement I put the rake of the fin back to where it does not protrude past the board.  I do this on all my surf boards. 

Now your technique will make the biggest difference, but you need to spend time paddling to make it better. An observation of my own paddling is that I am leaning over the rail on the side of my paddle to make the paddle vertical and to pull it down the rail without banging the rail. I am pretty much using the j stroke and I can redirect my board by just using the paddle stoke differently.

The issue of chop and wind and current can make for a very confused sea state. If you are not able to take it standing and keep falling off then try kneeing it until you get back to calmer waters or you have the desire to stand again.  This is a safety comment and you should be able to get back if you are over your head in these conditions. But to be a better paddler you need to challenge these conditions also.

Keep at it. Paddle in the conditions you expect to be in. For example if your goal is the surf zone, once you get the skill to paddle in flat water then get in the surf zone for their are many situations there you will never sea in the harbor. If you are going to run offshore then practice there because these skills have to be learned in the conditions you expect to paddle in which the harbor will not provide.

I have a friend who is learning to paddle. He is only doing it in the river and I keep telling him to transition to the surf.  He is a fantastic surfer but I don't understand why after 40 hours on the river he has not transitioned.  I guess he will be in the lineup someday competing for the same waves, so maybe I should not push him to hard which means  more for ME.

[PonoBill]

When you are paddling into a strong wind it helps to move forward on the board, sometimes as much as a foot forward of your typical standing position. I don't favor the J stroke, but that's a matter of preference. I prefer to do a little pull of the paddle towards the nose when I first place it. It seems like the J stroke interferes with a good paddle release.

You want as much of the paddle face under the board as you can get. Weight the rail and lean out a bit. Stroke to just even with your feet, and give the paddle a twist as you start to lift it, winging down your upper hand. The twist will make your paddle pop out of the water and is the start of feathering the paddle into the wind. You want the paddle flat so it doesn't catch wind as you swing it forward.

When it's really howling you can make better way by crouching. Sometimes I even choke up on the paddle to get down low. I like paddling into the wind for the workout, but it's not all that much fun.

[JC50]

Tincture of time is likely best remedy.

All great info, in addition to above maybe try the following:

1. Pressure the opposite rail while paddling (some boards require on-side rail pressure, others opposite to keep board straight, depending on board design)
2. Keep pull (power) phase far up in front of you, exit paddle at or before reaching your foot. (is paddle long enough?)
3. Top hand inline with on-side shoulder to keep shaft vertical. Not as comfortable at first (hand likes to stay more toward center) but one thing I had to work on (still do...).
4. Back off power, shorten stroke length, increase stroke rate. (this works for me when slogging uphill)
5. Invest in little vid-cam like a GoPro and mount to tip, videoing yourself. (WARNING: at first viewing be prepared to not recognize the person who's paddling your board b/c that goofball surely couldn't be you, you paddle so much better than that.... (speaking from experience here))

Time at it lets you play with all the different methods, finding what you need to make your board go.

Many paddling coaches use the following metaphor: "When you plant the paddle and pull, envision pulling "yourself" to the planted paddle as though it was a cemented pole in the water, DO NOT pull the paddle through the water to you."  You're doing the same thing of course, but what I've found about this way of looking at it is that you end up recruiting more core muscles to the stroke rather than arms. Once comfortable using these core muscles, you can add a little "body english" into the stroke, providing a little yaw to left or right by torquing mid-section a little.

[GSXXTRS]

Now your technique will make the biggest difference, but you need to spend time paddling to make it better. An observation of my own paddling is that I am leaning over the rail on the side of my paddle to make the paddle vertical and to pull it down the rail without banging the rail. I am pretty much using the j stroke and I can redirect my board by just using the paddle stoke differently.

The issue of chop and wind and current can make for a very confused sea state. If you are not able to take it standing and keep falling off then try kneeing it until you get back to calmer waters or you have the desire to stand again.  This is a safety comment and you should be able to get back if you are over your head in these conditions. But to be a better paddler you need to challenge these conditions also.

Keep at it. Paddle in the conditions you expect to be in. For example if your goal is the surf zone, once you get the skill to paddle in flat water then get in the surf zone for their are many situations there you will never sea in the harbor. If you are going to run offshore then practice there because these skills have to be learned in the conditions you expect to paddle in which the harbor will not provide.

Well after paddling at least half an hour a day for 5 straight days things are improving a bit.  My plan is eventually to do 5-10 mile downwind paddles.  I used to do similar kayak distance but I could always make it back to the truck.  I guess I'll have to start planning about that.  Then if I really have ocean conditions down I'd like to try to longboard style surf now and then. 

The problem I saw with rough water is I'm trying to do three things at once, 1) just stand up, 2) work on monitoring and improving my stroke, and 3) then deal with swells and chop that I'm not really watching because of #2.  It was just funny that as soon as I got feeling (over)confident I fell 5 minutes from the end of dealing with poor conditions for close to 2 hours.

Thanks to everyone for their tips.  I haven't been careful to feather the blade but worked on it yesterday.  I need more daylight time to practice, practice, practice.

Yes my paddle is long.  It's like 11 1/2 inches taller than me.  Sometimes I use less and choke up for shorter paddle strokes when maneuvering or other times requiring finesse.  And spending much more money on a GoPro so soon would make things a bit unpopular around the house.   

[PonoBill]

This probably won't help much, it's a two year old video I did about paddling straight. It shows the little nose pull that I've found works pretty well even in upwind paddling. My paddling technique has improved a lot from this video (I hope) and I see some problems. The nose turn stuff only worked out for Slo Morey, who does it all the time and can turn on a dime directly in front of a wave using the technique. All it was good for was a lot of laughs for me.

SUP 101: Paddling Straight and Footwork

[GSXXTRS]

I've spent a lot of time in the water over the past few weeks thanks to holidays.  I've made some improvements and at least have an idea of whats going on.  

I paddle straighter on my right or strong side.  Really its my more balanced and coordinated side.  

I also paddle straighter when I'm not fatigued.  So like in my swimming, I think my ability to maintain my form and technique degrades as tire.  Which leads to less efficiency and more fatigue.

When I am moving slowly against the wind or current my paddle speed decreases and I more drag my self through the water than push off forward.  That seems to exacerbate the yaw.    Does that make sense?   Soooo now I am thinking of a smaller paddle blade to increase my cadence.  Crap I just spent $250 on one last month!  I think my kayak days of just putting the biggest damn blade I can find into the water are over.

One last thing is I'm really hooked.  I can't believe the workout and pleasure I get.  For me it was a big leap to invest this much on a sport I wanted to like but really wasn't sure about.  It's really paid off.

[PonoBill]

Nothing wrong with having a few paddles, but you can cut your blade. I've trimmed mine several times with good result. Most blades have a foam core and a fairly wide edge that is solid. If you stay in this margin you can trim some off the blade without needing to do much about sealing the blade. You can really feel even just 1/4" taken off both sides and the tip. I took 1/2" off my Kialoa Shaka Pu'u but I sealed the edges with Epoxy just in case. Kind of a "do it yourself" methane. It wasn't easy to cut on a paddle I already loved, but I wanted to try a smaller blade for surfing. It's great. I'm considering a similar surgery for my Quickblade Elite. Gotta work myself up to it.