Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint

[Area 10]

You don't know if the current designs are working any better than previous ones because you don't see them up against each other, nor is any data presented that even vaguely approaches scientific criteria for measurement. Eagle, you are just being another arm of the marketing machine here. You can demand better, and we all probably should.

[Eagle]

Area - there was no mention that the "current designs are working any better than previous ones".  Only that the SB designs have changed quite a bit.  And the current trend of a narrow board with wide tail for stability seems to be working for most brands.

As to being a marketing machine.  Maybe.  But certainly not for SB or any other SUP brand.  Haha.  Just parsing speculation and bs. 

Bottom line is that narrower boards generate less drag as Kernan says - and getting the right stability is key.  What should be of interest is that according to SB -> the Drake 22 with fin in the middle was banned.  So does that set a precedent and make other boards with center fins a problem?

[PonoBill]

Bottom line is that narrower boards generate less drag as Kernan says - and getting the right stability is key.  What should be of interest is that according to SB -> the Drake 22 with fin in the middle was banned.  So does that set a precedent and make other boards with center fins a problem?

Banned by whom? What organizing body has the authority to "ban" a board??

[Eagle]

Maybe someone from SB should respond to that as it is posted on their website.  Was way before my time.

"Looking at race board evolutions, we already in 2008 paddled on 22″ wide boards designed for flat water. The late Jim Drake was drawing up these designs and they won the first ever Paddle board World Cup , the Jever Cup, in Hamburg. They were insanely fast and were soon banned as they had a fin in the middle of the hull to help stabilize the narrow board."

[Luc Benac]

Bottom line is that narrower boards generate less drag as Kernan says - and getting the right stability is key.  What should be of interest is that according to SB -> the Drake 22 with fin in the middle was banned.  So does that set a precedent and make other boards with center fins a problem?

Banned by whom? What organizing body has the authority to "ban" a board??

Wikipedia did not say :-) it might be that the Sprint UL was offered with a centre fin model called Drake. We can ask PhotoFR but it might have been banned by the Fishermen Association of Lower Brittany as it damaged fishnets and mussels sleeves/socks or then again Google is so fickle :-)

ps: I found the mysterious mussel killer fin. It was called a Race 44 (very original) and was available as an option on the Sprint UL. It seems to be a big monster, totally uncool to show up with a Sprint UL and put that thing on.....it would ban itself....

[PonoBill]

Yeah, I'm much too refined to call bullshit... but Bullshit. That's banned in the internet sense of banned, which means "we couldn't think of any other way to make anyone give a shit about this silly thing, so we called it banned".

[Eagle]

Haha.  SB banned is bs then.

In this old vid the keel fin in the middle of the K15 is shown.  The Sprint UL could also be had with a center fin for more stability.  SB should bring out this 22 Drake board from the archives.  Put Boothy on it and see how well he does.  But oops -> the Sprint 21.5 might be faster.  Haha. 

[PonoBill]

Okay, that's different. K15's were wicked fast for the day, so Naish set a 14' limit for the races they sponsored--which was a lot of races back when all this was getting started. That's how we got 14' as a limit. None of the bullshit about airlines, it was because Naish didn't want to get trounced by K15's. But it wasn't the fin. It was low rocker, 15 feet of waterline (as opposed to the Glide having 12' of waterline for a 12' board, and the Javelin having the paddler laying beside it in the water for anything but pure glass) and a dugout that got the paddler low and stable, and gave an advantageous blade angle.  A clearly superior design at the time, but banned? Only in the sense that it couldn't race in Robbie races, which was most of the races.

And now we're fucking stuck with 14 as a limit--for no good reason. And in a true genius move, the market for raceboards is everyone who wants to race that weighs less than 180 pounds--in other words, they cut their market to less than half the population so they would have a chance in some races no one remembers.

[TallDude]

I just got another unlimited. An older Richmond 19' x 24". It had a little damage, so I did a quickie repair and paddle it 8 miles tonight. The recessed deck kinda off sets the rounded bottom wobble. Kinda..... It's lighter than my 18' x 25", but has more foot steering. In fact my 18' doesn't really foot steer at all. On my 18' the rails are less rounded. When this Richmond starts to roll past a certain point, bamm... your making a hard left or right. I'm going to play around with some different fins. I had to rescue this Richmond from someones garage rafters. Now I have a Richmond in my collection

Here's some throw back paddle boarding history. These guys still do this. Jump on the board and prone paddle 32 miles. Look at the board shapes and how they move through the water. Fun stuff.

[Area 10]

In fairness to Starboard, there was a point where the regulations of most SUP races seemed to adopt the "one fixed fin only" rule. This helped accelerate the decline of the UL class, but also stifled creative solutions that involved centerboards and weighted keels etc on SUPs. So this might be what they meant by "banned" - that at the local level you'd be DQed from a race for using one. Board designs were much more fun back in those early days when anything went.

I agree with PB that the adoption of 12-6 and 14ft boards (plus the other regulations) so early did our sport no favours. But we've been here a gazillion times before, and I've long accepted that my own view (deregulate boards completely to increase design creativity, and widen participation and race formats: run what ya brung) is in the minority, and is hugely unpopular with the board manufacturers. So now I paddle UL boards when I want to have fun, and paddle boards that are not much fun if I want to race.

[Luc Benac]

So now I paddle UL boards when I want to have fun, and paddle boards that are not much fun if I want to race.

On my next race (I only do a couple a year...) I talked with the organiser and I can paddle my Ace-GT and I have agreed in writing that if I come first I will not get the price (last year it was a delicious pie - darn) - issue resolved - and I can still buy a slice of pie after the race at the nearby shop :-)

[Area 10]

So now I paddle UL boards when I want to have fun, and paddle boards that are not much fun if I want to race.

On my next race (I only do a couple a year...) I talked with the organiser and I can paddle my Ace-GT and I have agreed in writing that if I come first I will not get the price (last year it was a delicious pie - darn) - issue resolved - and I can still buy a slice of pie after the race at the nearby shop :-)

Good idea. I'll do that too, although there's not much danger of me winning overall even on an UL

If people start seeing ULs at races they might start thinking about getting one themselves and starting an UL division. It's chicken-and-egg with UL raceboards at the moment.

[yugi]

Let it be truly unlimited, anything goes (except additional power).

You big dudes may soon [again] find some light guys whupping butt with 7' [foil] boards. eh!

I like racing in one-design classes. Racer against racer.

Not that I'm big on racing, but if done better a level playing field.

[Luc Benac]

So now I paddle UL boards when I want to have fun, and paddle boards that are not much fun if I want to race.

On my next race (I only do a couple a year...) I talked with the organiser and I can paddle my Ace-GT and I have agreed in writing that if I come first I will not get the price (last year it was a delicious pie - darn) - issue resolved - and I can still buy a slice of pie after the race at the nearby shop :-)

Good idea. I'll do that too, although there's not much danger of me winning overall even on an UL

That is why it is such an easy commitment to make :-) I can still enjoy the beautiful scenery, have friends around and bonus there is a safety boat. What's not to like for $40. And there are people cheering at the arrival and there are not even family.....

[Pierre]

In fairness to Starboard, there was a point where the regulations of most SUP races seemed to adopt the "one fixed fin only" rule. This helped accelerate the decline of the UL class, but also stifled creative solutions that involved centerboards and weighted keels etc on SUPs. So this might be what they meant by "banned" - that at the local level you'd be DQed from a race for using one. Board desig ns were much more fun back in those early days when anything went.

I agree with PB that the adoption of 12-6 and 14ft boards (plus the other regulations) so early did our sport no favours. But we've been here a gazillion times before, and I've long accepted that my own view (deregulate boards completely to increase design creativity, and widen participation and race formats: run what ya brung) is in the minority, and is hugely unpopular with the board manufacturers. So now I paddle UL boards when I want to have fun, and paddle boards that are not much fun if I want to race.

I add a centreboard on my 14' when conditions get rough up/side wind, and also on my 18' the effect of centerboard and the rudder is pretty positive: it reduces the turnig circle a lot, so board can be manouvered in any conditions without moving on it. I ignored such thing was prohibited on UL races. On 14' most ignore this restrictions, but very fewuse this tip which is a very great advantage.