Small fin recommendations

[baddog]

The Eric Terrien is a good fin, but it's not particularly small..

It's 37.99si, which is definitely on the small side of SUP Race fins.  The SIC is tiny and probably another 3si or more smaller. 

If you reduce the area of a fin, especially towards the tip, you are going to sacrifice some stability and hold

Funny you should say this as the SIC fin has a narrower tip and a shallower depth.

The Terrien also has a moderately wide base, and smaller base fins are better specifically for quartering wind and swell.  The Terrien is a nice all-rounder though, for sure.

I agree with your take on wide bases, except with the Terrien, it's really not true.  The appearance of the base length is deceiving, partly because of the ramp at the base, but that doesn't tell the whole story.  The more upright pivot style, lack of rake and the cut-in at the base of the bulge acts like a cutaway fin.  Whatever the fin science, this fin outperformed my expectations just based on appearance.

I'll toss in a bigger fin I find works well in windier conditions, the Futures CA Downwind.

[PonoBill]

If you really wanted an Aercor you could make it fit. I see three ways.

1. remove the rear pin, undercut the trailing edge, relocate the pin.
2. Cut off the front screw tang, Mill or route a fin screw tang slot under the open area of the fin, drill a fin screw hole so you fin screw is inside the cutout. I don't really see why the fin screw isn't there to begin with.
3. Remove the fin screw tang, fit screwless ball detents.

Doesn't Larry make Aercor fins in screwless to begin with??  Would those fit an 8" box?

[Luc Benac]

If you really wanted an Aercor you could make it fit. I see three ways.

1. remove the rear pin, undercut the trailing edge, relocate the pin.
2. Cut off the front screw tang, Mill or route a fin screw tang slot under the open area of the fin, drill a fin screw hole so you fin screw is inside the cutout. I don't really see why the fin screw isn't there to begin with.
3. Remove the fin screw tang, fit screwless ball detents.

Doesn't Larry make Aercor fins in screwless to begin with??  Would those fit an 8" box?

Yes the Aercor comes without a tang.Even the non-screwless ones have the screw inside the cut of the fin. I have the click-it model and the base of the fin is about 8 1/2 so you have to cut in the fin itself to make it fit in a 8" box. Now if the box is 8 1/2" instead of 8" then there is a good chance that it will fit.

[Board Stiff]

SIC Weedless 7" is good.

But what you probably want is a True Ames/Longboard House Squirrel fin, or a FCS Fat Boy (which is very similar). That design allows you to quarter wind and waves well while maintaining stability and enhancing surfablility. There isn't a down side really. Use a 9" if you are stable on your board and want maximum cross-wind performance (or even a 8" if you are expert) or a 10" if you want some stability as well, and will be surfing with it also.

But of course none of you will believe me, because it is a odd-looking surf fin and no-one has given you a load of voodoo marketing BS about it. I guess some things you just have to discover for yourself. When you do finally get there though, remember where you heard it first, eh?

Reviving an old thread here... I'm looking for a surf and downwind fin to replace the stock fin on my Jimmy Lewis M-12'6. The stock fin feels too stiff to turn easily in surf, and in messy conditions, quartering waves tend to catch it and cause the board to yaw, then roll. I've got an SIC Weedless 8'3 on another board that I can swap in for downwinding (haven't tried it yet), so if there's any tradeoff between surf and downwind performance, I'll probably lean towards surf handling in the new fin.

To that end, the Fatboy and Squirrel fins both look pretty intriguing. Both are available for about $60 on Amazon, so price isn't a differentiator. Area10 - have you observed any notable differences in handling between these two? What size would you recommend for use on a JL M-12'6 in knee to head high, fairly mushy/crumbly waves, or occasional downbreezers/light downwinders (usually inland)?

If anyone has tried either of these and the FCS II Connect, how do they compare with the Connect (same price in performance glass construction, 1/3rd the price in flexglass construction)?

Thanks!

BS

[Area 10]

I have a slight preference for the True Ames Squirrel over the Fat Boy, but they are very similar. The TA perhaps turns a little better, but the FB tracks a shade better, so it's down to personal preference. I'm not confident that if I didn't know which of them was underneath me, I'd be very accurate in predicting which one was there.

For a 12-6 I'd go for the 9" fin in either of those, and I prefer a 10" for real mushy stuff on 14s - with a 9" for cleaner conditions.

On a 12-6 you could even go to a 8", but it depends how "planted" you like your tail end to be, and how skilful you are.

These fins provide a lot of stability for their area. But they aren't for people who are looking for stability primarily. They are for people who want surfability and turning.

[coldsup]

Since I wrote that thread way back I've gone back to bigger fins for DW as I tried a small Fin and didn't get on with it....made life way too hard.

For surfing the M14 in waves I just stick a dolphin fin in. I have a Rainbow MDT3 10 inch which I used to use on longboards and my Nalu.

So far I am finding the Futures Califoria a good compromise for both DW and surfing waves. It is the go to fin.....like to try a GT Moray but maybe one for when I have spare cash

[Board Stiff]

A10 - thanks for the additional info. Sounds like the TA may be a better fit for me, since I already have another option for DW tracking.

Coldsup - which smaller fin(s) did you try and not like? It's helpful to hear what doesn't work as well as what does. 

[coldsup]

A10 - thanks for the additional info. Sounds like the TA may be a better fit for me, since I already have another option for DW tracking.

Coldsup - which smaller fin(s) did you try and not like? It's helpful to hear what doesn't work as well as what does. 

I tried a B Project Tiger fin. Used it most in my Allstar x27. It was really good in mild conditions....tracked well for its size and guess it was minimal drag compared to others.....but just not enough depth for me when it got chopped and confused. It was a bit of an experiment. Would certainly use it for racing or in calmer conditions.

[Board Stiff]

I tried a B Project Tiger fin. Used it most in my Allstar x27. It was really good in mild conditions....tracked well for its size and guess it was minimal drag compared to others.....but just not enough depth for me when it got chopped and confused. It was a bit of an experiment. Would certainly use it for racing or in calmer conditions.

Those look a little more race-oriented than I need, and a lot more expensive! 

[Eagle]

Would first put in the SIC 8.3 that you have and see how that feels.  Have used that fin to free up the tail on all our boards - but it does have a little too much bite and tracking when going across waves.  This only occurs DW when you really need to go far left or right across the waves however.  And if you can generate enough paddle speed down the waves - you can go across them ok.  Otherwise the standard SIC 8.3 stability fin is perfectly fine for DW.  It is actually a really good all around fin.

With the SIC 7.0 this tripping problem goes away.  The lower height and lower area allow the fin to maintain good flow and speed.  Comparatively the SB Race 23 we also use is a high aspect dolphin.  The 7.0 has enough base drive and is very fast and maneuverable - while the Race 23 is a touch slower but has more tip stability and hold.  Both these fins have different characteristics but are very predictable on the water.  You know when you are about to reach their limits and can back off accordingly.  But like most small fins -> these do lack some stability.

For DW we first want stability -> then maneuverability.  But interestingly maneuverability provides stability when the fin is driving down and across a wave and not wanting to catch and broach.  For small fins DW then -> would go for the SIC 7.0 then SB Race 23 then SIC 8.3.  The positive as well is these fins do the job perfectly fine for $70 Cdn.  Fins that cost $200 USD simply are too expensive. 

Our approach is to pay only as much as you need to - and no more.  Which also applies to paddles and boards as well.  Most of these products are overpriced and hyped to the max using basic 101 marketing tactics.  So do try that SIC 8.3 you have sitting around first for a DW run.  It will probably work just fine.   

[Board Stiff]

Thanks, Eagle. I'm definitely going to try the SIC fin for DW, and I think that will be good enough in the smaller conditions I typically encounter, especially at the price (free!). I'm thinking a dolphin or Squirrel shape will still be worthwhile for surf, and might prove useful in certain DW conditions too.

[Eagle]

Always is a good idea to try different fins.  We have 8 - and each one has specific pros and cons.

For relatively straight DW runs we have used big fins like the Gladiator Elite and Hybrid and JL Tracker.  And in really rough sloppy conditions they help to dampen roll.  But you must generate paddle speed to stay ahead of the waves.  And if you do those fins work fine.

However if you get pushed from behind you will have a tendency to catch and broach.  So really as long as you go faster than the waves - any fin works.  Just that if you need to go far left or right you will have to work hard to get the board to react.  A bigger fin makes DW more technical in that way as the margin of error is smaller.

Have used that SIC 8.3 in winds to 25+ kts DW on the Bullet 14V1 and 14V2 and JL M-14 - and it simply rocks.  Stability at speed -> plus is very predictable.   

[coldsup]

Thing is....you surely need to factor in rider height and weight so one fin that is good for one person might not be so good for another?

[Eagle]

For sure.  What works for A -> may not work for B.  So always best to try out firsthand - and use what works best for you - and the conditions you paddle in.  Since we paddle our boards a lot - we are always experimenting and finding what works best when.

[Area 10]

Eagle - try a True Ames Squirrel. I know it looks a bit different (although not if you have a longboard surf background since it's a classic shape), But don't let that put you off. The way you are talking about what you want from fins suggests to me that they might be just right for you.

I've got scores of fins including many ££££ ones but keep coming back to these. Cheap(ish), strong, light enough, and work really well, allowing you to "downwind surf" and change direction quickly, no broaching. You can get them in a range of nice colours too

A squirrel for an Eagle. There's gotta be a joke in there somewhere.