What "meaningful action" would suggest to prevent more mass shooting in the US?

[Admin]

Even back then, there was an apparent need to create a positive spin. Could Dr. Gatling have been the original spin-doctor?

I am not sure about first.  In any event, it caught on.

The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country.
J. Robert Oppenheimer

[Bean]

It's funny, I was thinking of Oppenheimer when I wrote that...thanks for digging out the actual quote.

[supthecreek]

Admin:
"The constitution predates early auto weapons by 80+ years."

The Constitution "Post dates" 1,000's of years of human history and human behavior.

The notion that they were short sighted and could not conceive of actual conditions in the distant future is self aggrandizing.

The future is exactly what they were addressing when they wrote the Constitution. They knew, from eons of history before them, that while government was a dangerous necessity, it had to be limited in it's power. The Founding Fathers were well aware of the tendency of government to devolve into tyranny.(arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power)

Several Thomas jefferson thoughts on the future:
---History, by apprising the people of the past, will enable them to judge of the future; it will avail them of the experience of other times and other nations; it will qualify them as judges of the actions and designs of men; it will enable them to know ambition under every disguise it may assume; and knowing it, to defeat its views.

---On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it conform to the probable one in which it was passed.— 1823

---I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, July 17, 1775
---But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.

John Adams, letter to John Taylor, April 15, 1814
---Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.

supthecreek, 12/21/12
---Well meaning, concerned and thoughtful people are too quick to erode freedom in order to provide an immediate solution to an egregious problem.

[Admin]

The notion that they were short sighted and could not conceive of actual conditions in the distant future is self aggrandizing.

I said the opposite.  The Constitution had amazing foresight in that it allowed itself mechanism to be ammended.  The second ammendment was just that - an ammendment not in the original doc - and in my mind a good one.  Had the constitution been inflexible or short sighted there would be no second ammendment for us to discuss.  You are reading in rights that are not there.  

You are upset with the legislature for passing laws that put certain restrictions on arms but that is not in conflict with the Constitution and, in honesty, you agree with many of them.  Going to the extreme, do you want nuclear arms?  Do you want guns in planes?  

[JeanG]

No one says that gun free zones are unconstitutional, only sometimes unwise.

Heavy weapons, cannons, etc, are not the sorts of weapons kept in ones' house and thus don't get 2nd amendment protections. Assault rifles are and thus should be protected by the 2nd, but unfortunately the Supremes disagree.

[Admin]

No one says that gun free zones are unconstitutional, only sometimes unwise.

Heavy weapons, cannons, etc, are not the sorts of weapons kept in ones' house and thus don't get 2nd amendment protections. Assault rifles are and thus should be protected by the 2nd, but unfortunately the Supremes disagree.

Are you rewriting the 2nd ammendment?

[supthecreek]

The first draft of the Constitution set up a system of checks and balances that included a strong executive, a representative legislature, and a federal judiciary, as well as a division of federal and state powers. But contrary to the urging of some delegates, the framers did not include a specific declaration of rights. In other words, the Constitution specified what the government could do but did not say what the government could not do.

The framers of the Constitution did not originally include a list of "inalienable rights" because they deemed them a matter of fact... rights that did not need to be listed because they were "self evident"

The Bill of Rights may have been added as "Amendments" to the Constitution, but only because they felt they were so obvious and unassailable, as to make them unnecessary... concerns that those "natural rights" may be vulnerable, caused them to add the "Bill of Rights" as a protective measure.

[JeanG]

No one says that gun free zones are unconstitutional, only sometimes unwise.

Heavy weapons, cannons, etc, are not the sorts of weapons kept in ones' house and thus don't get 2nd amendment protections. Assault rifles are and thus should be protected by the 2nd, but unfortunately the Supremes disagree.

Are you rewriting the 2nd ammendment?

Cannons existed in the framer's time, were not permitted for private ownership then.

I am personally in favor of heavy weapons, tanks, cannons etc being owned by private individuals... But unlike most others, I don't assume that my own private preferences were shared by the framers. I realize that my personal policy preferences are not inline with theirs.

Such humility is rare, it seems.

[Admin]

Cannons existed in the framer's time, were not permitted for private ownership then.

To take an originalist stance with the above understanding and then propose constitutional protection for assault weapons...

[JeanG]

Assault weapons are standard military arms, carried by individual soldiers universally across the planet. To deny their protection under the 2nd amendment is a farce.

Machine guns, cannons, and other heavy weapons require a team to operate properly. They are not "kept" by soldiers in the traditional sense, nor do soldiers "bear" them in any traditional sense.

[Celeste]

The first draft of the Constitution set up a system of checks and balances that included a strong executive, a representative legislature, and a federal judiciary, as well as a division of federal and state powers. But contrary to the urging of some delegates, the framers did not include a specific declaration of rights. In other words, the Constitution specified what the government could do but did not say what the government could not do.

The framers of the Constitution did not originally include a list of "inalienable rights" because they deemed them a matter of fact... rights that did not need to be listed because they were "self evident"

The Bill of Rights may have been added as "Amendments" to the Constitution, but only because they felt they were so obvious and unassailable, as to make them unnecessary... concerns that those "natural rights" may be vulnerable, caused them to add the "Bill of Rights" as a protective measure.

The Constitution was passed because there was a promise that amendments would be shortly added.  Madison was charged with writing them, and his correspondents about it makes it clear they were things he deemed would not get in the way of anything.  He actually wrote 12 amendments but 2 were not passed by the states  

[Admin]

Such humility is rare, it seems.

Did you just compliment your own humility? 

I am starting to think I may not be able to sway you guys on this one

[JeanG]

Speaking of amendments, remember the 5th Amendment? What ever happened to that one? Must have become to inconvenient for it's own good.

[Kevin]

If we need to stage an armed revolt against our own country I'm sure the Chinese and or Russians would be happy to provide us weaponry.

[JeanG]

Such humility is rare, it seems.

Did you just compliment your own humility? 

I am starting to think I may not be able to sway you guys on this one

You haven't even begun to budge on concealed carry, despite all of the evidence