Quads v 2+1's In Narrow Tails

[Piros]

Been riding alot of different demos lately sub 9's .I'm a real Quad fan at heart but have found the 2+1 has felt better under my feet than the quad on the boards with a really pulled in thin tail especially on the cutsbacks.Can't quiet work out why...? Favorite set up on the 2+1 at the moment is AM2's front with a 6.5" cutaway centre. Always love the drive of the quad but on performance boards I seem to be getting more out of the 3 fin setup..Discuss.

 

[chipmonk]

This is a tough one! I had a custom 8'10 board that I had two extra boxes installed in.  The board felt  good on the bottom turn, but it made it harder for me to cutback in a tight, controlled arc. That board wasn't really made to be a quad, so I didnt think too much of it. Now I have an 8'6 Ripper. This board is reputed to go super well as a quad, and I have the fins that PSH recommends for it. But....I notice that unless the waves are firing down the line super fast, I prefer the two plus one! I come in and switch back and forth frequently to compare the two set ups.  No question that the board has less drag and has a higher top end speed as a quad. But "the rhythm" of my surfing is always better with it set up two plus one.  And the rhythm of it is the most important thing, IMHO. And...all my prone shortboards are quads! I have a 6'2 Larry Mabile stinger that is my new favorite surfboard, and it feels fine. Also, referencing your title, I had one quad made for me a few years ago that was a pintail. Its always been explained to me that quads work better on wide tail boards, as they help harness the drive that a wide tail can create. And that narrow pintail quad never felt right, and the shape was pretty similar to other boards that I owned.

[Piros]

Thanks for that Chipmonk , great reply. I was demoing 3/ PSH's , 8-6 WR , 8-9 R & 8-11 R .The 8-11 with it's narrow outline IMO just feels right with the 2+1 , I'm not slding in my cutbacks and drawing really nice lines on it even in smaller waves and as you said the rhythm feels great and that's where I'm getting extra speed not from the pump and drive but acceleration out of turns. The 8-6 WR felt better as a quad with the extra width but not the 8-9 R. Every board I own short board or Sup is a quad . I am buying the 8-11R and it looks like I be keeping it as a 2+1 board.

[paddlesurf.net]

I tried to like quads but they never felt right to me on a stand up board. I do have them on my regular surfboards and like the user-friendliness of them (also, I think on regular surf boards they're right under your feet while on a stando they're not always right there and powered up). Maybe I haven't been on a board properly set up for a quad- but to me, I much prefer two plus one set ups with fins all the same size.

[Strand Leper]

Very good topic Piros.  Have an Imagine Eco Enigma that I REALLY didn't like (riding as a quad)... tail blew too easily, could not track vertically, super fast, never felt truly connected to the wave, however.  Switched it to a two plus one... and BAMMO tracking vertically, connected to the wave... loading up in the fade and then just SPRINGING down the line...  That board happened to have a very narrow tail. (8'6" by 28").

Tried the PSH 8'6" both ways... and just did not get the speed that I am used to...

I might have Roger throw in a regular box on my new 8'6" just to mix it up... I think with ALL of the volume of a stando, it is really difficult to do the vertical turn necessary to square up to the lip with a quad... not talking about hitting the close out section (or the section as it is racing away)as that is like butter on a quad... instead, I am talking about that deep turn necessary to hit the lip that is not exactly racing ahead of you...

Good times.

Tim

[SoCalSupper]

im the opposite of most-not a quad fan-i surf back foot heavy and love my 6-5 future cutaway center and the Lopez sides!-i am trying to get more vertical snaps off the top and i really love to stomp on myback foot-dig the paddle and really fling my shoulders around to try to get more snap-just cant do it the same on a quad-when its smaller and mushy and more sectioned i like the quads to really try and drive the line-look for a little ramp and launch a big whitewater floater. i get so amped to surf sometimes i hate to stop and change fins when i pull up but i am starting to get more patient-look at the conditions-select the fins and then stick to what i want to do-go fast and try to launch or surf  more "pivoty" and go for turns.  

[Absolutetrip]

I think alot of guys have problems with quads not doing what they want because they are not placed properly on the SUP. Quads are not as refined as trifins. Alot of builders are just now understanding where they go and how they work together.
 I am a old prone twinfin/twinzer guy. When I built my first surf SUPs I played with math and placement for a while and got em down and found that the relationship of how they are set up is key. The front fins measure from the rail and the rear fins measure from the center line. The distance between the rears is important for that conected feel and "SNAP" The closer the rears are to each other on the centerline, the more thruster like the board feels with greatly increased drive. But they can be to close there is a happy medium there. Also keeping less tow in the rear fins than the front and less cant also makes a big difference in both down the line drive and the ability of a quad to actually pick up speed through a turn.
 Also fin selection can be a challenge on a quad. Personally I do not like alot of rake on the Quads it tightens the board up even with smaller fins it tightens it up way to much, a larger less raked fin like a wide base twinfin in the front and a small canard style rear fin works well for me.

[Piros]

Good stuff loving this info.... Absolutetrip , great point on placement of the quads and canting , Classic example PSH v Ron House quad placement is very different with the PSH much further back on all 4 fins and the cant of the fins is greatly affected by the bottom contours of the board in the tail , double concave or a V can affect the cant by around 3 degress ,which in turn can make a raked fin almost vertical on a deep double concaved board where a V bottom will rake it even more. I found this out the hard way on my customs. Classic example of my 8-7 Twin experiment below in the pic with a deep double concave.I could only run fins with extreme rake like the Rastas other wise they were just too straight or almost canted in. In the second shot you can see the extra rake with the same fins on another board with heaps less double concave , this is even more exaggerated with the fins being set closer to the centerline. (yes I did go through a twin phase but over it now ) first pic Aussie DC custom , second pic Ron House custom.

SoCalSupper I'm also very heavy on the backfoot and always blow the tail with my quads on cutbacks , haven't done it once on the 2+1 yet.

[aircube]

Why is it that a 2+1 has small fins in the front with a large trailing center fin and quads ussually have the opposite?  larger fins in the front with trailing fins that are smaller.


the 2+1 makes sense to me, a fin at the back that you can pivot on and sidebites forward that add grip with out being so large that they grab too much

But the larger fins forward on the quads?  i don't get it...  I can see it working if the desired result is to have a board that is less vertically pivoty and surfs flatter

Can anyone shed some light on this

[WB]

I have one board I like as a quad: Hobie custom 9'2 Stinger II.

I has a wider stinger tail that is very thin. If I put my trusty GL Lopez thruster set in the board is WAYYYY too loose. Consequently I run it with the GL Quad set and the board seems to be perfect blend of drive and turn. Assuming quad placement is correct, I think a critical component of shape that should accompany quads is a break in the rail line near the tail: Hobie Stinger, Stamps Ninjas bump to name a few. The break in rail allows for the board to release up top effectively negating that locked in feeling of quads.

I agree with SL in regards to general shape volume and turn type in regards to 2+1 thruster for SUP. I will admit that I am addicted to that front foot stomp on it quad speed burst. No section is un-makeable.

[Weasels wake]

Why is it that a 2+1 has small fins in the front with a large trailing center fin and quads ussually have the opposite?  larger fins in the front with trailing fins that are smaller.


the 2+1 makes sense to me, a fin at the back that you can pivot on and sidebites forward that add grip with out being so large that they grab too much

But the larger fins forward on the quads?  i don't get it...  I can see it working if the desired result is to have a board that is less vertically pivoty and surfs flatter

Can anyone shed some light on this

Can't really shed some light on it, but I know that Starboards latest quad wave board for windsurfing has become a huge hit, and many pros are loving it.

[Scotty Mac]

absoulte, you are spot on, the rear fin in toward the centre works for me and also 50/50 rear fin foil. work good on narrow tails also.

[Wazza66]

Interesting topic Piros.......
I have had five custom boards and have played around a lot with fin placements and sizes.

I too love quad set ups but have the new 9'0 Hokua and it is heaps faster as  a 2 plus one. I use Simon A large on the sides and the standard Naish 6.5 centre.

I used  to put the fins up further on my customs as Joe Blair recommended, but although loose, needed more drive which meant using bigger fins.

I think narrower tails needs fins places further back and 2 plus 1 set up.

Loved the SHARE THE STOKE movie!!!

Wassup


waz