Climategate "Scandal" - Just a load of hot air

[Lobes]

I'm not sure we are on the same page here Bill  You seem to be suggesting that every single email from the CRU servers were leaked. From my understanding of the issue thats not an accurate statement. The hackers selected a range of emails to place in a Zip file and upload to various anti-AGW websites. There were a lot of emails they did not include, most mundane and irrelevant, some perhaps not, but I am not 100% knowledgeable on the value of the ones that were left out or how they would affect the overall case (if at all).

The quote as I read it is accurate. CRU emails in their entirety were not leaked. To try and clarify what I am saying is that the emails that emerged were individually complete but as a collection there were some emails missing. I dont have reason to believe the individual emails were edited before release.

As for being easy to win. I wish. Kwhilden is gonna hate me for saying this but to be brutally honest I am probably closer to Lovelocks position than his own. I still try to be positive but I see the massive denial machine we are up against, combined with the Siberian permafrost melting, and it kills my remaining hope that there is time left. Even if everyone agreed on the science there is so much to be done and so much inertia to overcome that I am not sure it is even possible.

Saying that I applaud Kwhilden for his attitude and I will support that sort of thinking to the very end. But I dont intend to have kids.

[PonoBill]

Nope, I'm saying that the quote you lead this thread off with inferred that the email that wasn't included was selected for nefarious purposes. And that's not so.

Doesn't matter.

the way to deal with this is for the community of people deeply concerned about global warming to stop lecturing and start aiming to convince. Stop doing all the stupid things like making enemies and alienating anyone that isn't immediately convinced of your rightness. Take the time it takes to write 2000 words that no one will read and instead use the time to write ten words that they will. Cut and paste is your enemy.

I'm a climate scientist. I've decided I should never have kids. Ask me why.

If you make $45,000 a year you pay $10,000 in taxes. Mobil made $45 Billion and paid none, Ask your congressman who should pay to fight global warming.

The people who hate America the most control oil. Energy independence isn't just about global warming tomorrow, it's about survival today. Join the fight. 

Took me five minutes. I bet you can do better. The internet is the scariest weapon I've ever seen.

[log man]

What was that famous film footage of the airship( no !! not the one that exploded), the one being tethered in a strong wind, come on , someone must know. It reminds me of Bill's position on GW . You know the one where hundreds of people are hanging onto the ropes but slowly, as some people lose their grip the airship starts to lift into the air . The people that jump quickly only fall a couple of feet and sure it's an ignominious landing with a couple of bruises but they make it unharmed. And as those people let go the ballast reduces and the airship rises faster and faster. More people let go through lack of strength to hold on. They probably fall to their deaths,but it's too late now, their decision has been made for them. Only the strongest and most determined remain clinging to the ropes but they know the inevitability of their situation. Bill, this is your situation, you should have jumped earlier instead of hanging on. your positions are becoming more and more ridiculous but your still hanging on. Did you pack the parachute?

[Weasels wake]

A parliamentary review into the leaked emails from the University of East Anglias Climate Research Unit has just been completed. It found no evidence of faked or manipulated data.

Well actually, it's not that they didn't find anything, they did find some stuff that shouldn't have been used. So you could say that they will continue with their studies, and will continue to support 'cap and tax' type legislation, but they will continue with some stains that won't wash out.
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From the Financial Times today~

GLOBAL WARMING GRAPH ATTACKED BY STUDY

By Fiona Harvey, Environment Correspondent
Published: April 14 2010 19:51 | Last updated: April 14 2010 19:51

A key piece of evidence in climate change science was slammed as “exaggerated” on Wednesday by the UK’s leading statistician, in a vindication of claims that global warming sceptics have been making for years.

Professor David Hand, president of the Royal Statistical Society, said that a graph shaped like an ice hockey stick that has been used to represent the recent rise in global temperatures had been compiled using “inappropriate” methods.

“It used a particular statistical technique that exaggerated the effect [of recent warming],” he said.

The criticism came as part of a report published on Wednesday that found the scientists behind the “Climategate” e-mail scandal had behaved “honestly and fairly” and showed “no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice”.

The e-mails were hacked last autumn from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia. They caused a storm, as they appeared to show scientists manipulating and concealing data.

Although Wednesday’s report – commissioned by UEA with advice from the Royal Society, the UK’s prestigious national science academy – exonerated the unit’s scientists, it criticised climate experts for failures in handling statistics.

“It is very surprising that research in an area that depends so heavily on statistical methods has not been carried out in close collaboration with professional statisticians,” the report concluded.

The hockey stick graph was a key part of the scandal. In the e-mails, UEA’s Professor Phil Jones referred to a “trick” to “hide the decline” in temperatures suggested by certain sources of data. A similar trick was used in the hockey stick graph.

The UEA scientists said that “trick” merely referred to a scientific technique – an explanation accepted by some sceptics, including Lord Lawson, former Tory chancellor.

Prof Hand said his criticisms should not be seen as invalidating climate science. He pointed out that although the hockey stick graph – which dates from a study led by US climate scientist Michael Mann in 1998 – exaggerates some effects, the underlying data show a clear warming signal.

He accused sceptics of “identifying a few particular issues and blowing them up” to distort the true picture. The handful of errors found so far, including the exaggerated hockey stick graph and a mistaken claim by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that Himalayan glaciers would disappear by 2035, were “isolated incidents”, he said. “If you look at any area of science, you would be able to find odd examples like this. It doesn’t detract from the vast bulk of the conclusions,” he said.

The report into the science produced by UEA, which came from a panel chaired by Lord Oxburgh, a scientist and former Shell chairman, was the second investigation into Climategate in the UK. The first, by a committee of MPs, also found the scientists innocent of manipulating data, though it said they may have breached Freedom of Information legislation.

An investigation into the scientists’ handling of FOI requests is still under way.

[Lobes]

A parliamentary review into the leaked emails from the University of East Anglias Climate Research Unit has just been completed. It found no evidence of faked or manipulated data.

Well actually, it's not that they didn't find anything, they did find some stuff that shouldn't have been used. So you could say that they will continue with their studies, and will continue to support 'cap and tax' type legislation, but they will continue with some stains that won't wash out.
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What stuff? The hockey stick?

After the amount of times the hockey stick has been recreated using the same data its obvious any objection to its validity is political in nature.

And who says the CRU support Cap and Tax, where do you get that suggestion from? Even if they did they are climatologists not economists so who cares what sort of tax system they support??

[Weasels wake]

A parliamentary review into the leaked emails from the University of East Anglias Climate Research Unit has just been completed. It found no evidence of faked or manipulated data.

Well actually, it's not that they didn't find anything, they did find some stuff that shouldn't have been used. So you could say that they will continue with their studies, and will continue to support 'cap and tax' type legislation, but they will continue with some stains that won't wash out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What stuff? The hockey stick?

After the amount of times the hockey stick has been recreated using the same data its obvious any objection to its validity is political in nature.

And who says the CRU support Cap and Tax, where do you get that suggestion from? Even if they did they are climatologists not economists so who cares what sort of tax system they support??

You know what I mean, a wanted mandate using goverrnment control to accomplish a green life style for us all.
Doesn't matter what country we're talking about.  That's where this ultimately all leads.  If you're hoping for a voluntary effort to succeed, dream on.

[Lobes]

Actually most of the time I don't know what you mean. Many of your posts are ambiguous and rely largely on articles you find from various sources to which you seem to imply 'stuff', but what that stuff is is rarely very clear.

One thing that is very apparent is your fear though. Perversely you seem less scared of climate change than of the measures that will be required to address it.

I can tell you one thing for sure, you must stand up and own this problem. Its no good taking pot shots at the science which all points in the same direction. I can not see anything emerging in the near future that is going to back up the denier viewpoint that this is not a man made problem.

Adopting a green lifestyle is not so bad. For sure there will be difficult changes ahead and some things may get more expensive but you will still have it better than any other civilization in any time of history.

I will keep working on that voluntary effort. If we dont have input into the changes ahead then they will be made for us. You seem to be content to pretend this is not a problem. It is a real problem and your attitude in trying to ignore it means you will be voiceless and people like me will be making decisions about your future lifestyle. I intend to shape the process whereas you seem intent to be a victim of it. This is your chance to get onboard, dont waste it.