Author Topic: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L  (Read 12763 times)

JohnnyTsunami

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Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« on: March 23, 2022, 11:04:38 PM »
Ahoy!

I started my wing board build and it's been a trip already. I had to find some foam, build a hotwire, build a vacuum pump, get all the gear, etc. Anyway I started tonight and I'll share what I learn along the way. See this thread about me asking for glassing schedules. https://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,37839.0.html

I was up racing in SF a couple weeks ago on wing and was able to check out all the boards the fast folks were riding - almost all of which are DIY jobs. I was actually able to talk briefly with someone who helped shape some of them and makes other beautiful boards. My glassing schedule will be similar to his, maybe a little lighter.

The build will consist of:
   - .9lb EPS foam (.9003 lb/cuft to be exact, measured by weighing a uniform block).
   - Carbon/innegra hybrid 4oz
   - 4oz s-glass to put on top
   - 1/8" 5lb divinycell only the standing area (S-glass underneath, or maybe the carbon/innegra).
   - 5lb thicker divinycell to beef up the boxes and to make 1" wide boxes for the strap mounts/leash.
   - 16" Chinook dual tracks
   - Tuttle from fiberglass supply
   - Vacuum bagging everything

I hotwired out the blank today using a DIY hotwire. I can share the materials but basically it's just a buck-booster from amazon for 16$ and a laptop 12v 5A charger running at 10V 4.x Amps and a wire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgIcN2TPt9Q

Then I used a harbor freight hotknife for the outline. It looks bad but I ditched the flimsy adjustable guide and made my own perfectly square guide that's 5.125" deep (slightly not deep enough).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJSe0OtH6EE

The blank, just hotwired, weighs 2.7lbs. This is more than I was planning, but that's the lightest foam you can get. Calculating off the weight of a block of the same foam to get the exact density and using the weight of the hotwired blank, I get 85L as the volume now. I expect to lose about 10L, which would make it close to my weight in KG.

Originally I was planning a 60L board, but I'm thinking now if I can use this in lower winds, I can sell my larger 2022 board and save some $ for other gear.

The hotknife was interesting, a bit too hot and when I didn't hod it down right it made a couple gouges. It would be safer to make a top and bottom template. The hotwire worked well, although a bit slow. If you make some waves in the foam you can't really go back over them if they are under 1/4" or so since the foam sort of turns to goo and doesn't cut cleanly anymore, but I will sort that out with sand paper. I should have been more careful on the nose as it has a sharp turn and one end of the wire went over before the other, causing a potential issue. We'll see tomorrow when I go to do the rail shaping.

I plan on using a tuttle to use some fast foils. However, I have to wait 2+ months for my foil and the ones I do have are a tuttle that goes 4" behind a normal tuttle, or they are a dual track system (axis). So, reluctantly, I'm putting in 16" chinook dual tracks (.8lbs for just the tracks- same weight as the 10") to future-proof the board. The tracks don't fit with the tuttle in between by about .5", so I plan to cut the dual track flange back a bit to nest with the tuttle. I'll do divinycell the width and length of the individual tracks and through to the deck of the board (DW style).

I would attach photos but I can't figure it out. Attaching jpegs doesn't work, nor does putting a link inside an image bracket so here is flickr. https://www.flickr.com/photos/28261840@N08/albums/72177720297583719

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2022, 11:12:47 PM »
If anyone knows how to cap off a tuttle box from fiberglass supply let me know. I have about .25" to fill with divinycell between it and the deck. I could just run bolts with washes from through the carbon/divinycell deck to the tuttle, or do I need to cap off the tuttle with carbon (how much?) or use carbon tubes to take the load? I assume the loads are quite small on the retaining bolts for the tuttle. 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2022, 03:25:11 AM »
I’d use a GoFoil tuttle box instead of the WaterRat tuttle. The Gofoil does fit a Mikes Lab foil.

On paper, you’d question that because GoFoil’s box is designed with vertical screws. Genuine tuttle boxes are angled screws. But it does work because the GoFoil box places the screw head deep down in the board, right tight over the mast head.

When using the waterrat box you’ve got a shit show to work around. It being those angled screws wanting to point through the back angled wall. If you’re not following what I’m saying, put that water rat box on your foil head and try installing the screws. Before building the board. You have to cut that water rat box down to 2.88 inches high, then cap it with carbon, then build the screw tunnels. A big hassle. The GoFoil box is easier. With the GoFoil, technically, the cap screw heads are sitting at a slight angle to the surface at the bottom of the hole. But who cares, use a washer, and I know from cutting those boxes, that surface at the bottom is 1/2” thick carbon, so no chance of failure. Overall, the GoFoil box is far more robust in build than the WaterRat box from Larry Tuttle.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2022, 03:32:27 AM by Dwight (DW) »

Dontsink

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2022, 04:34:29 AM »
To clarify,your glass schedule will be:

Top: EPS+Dcell+4ozCarbonInnegra+4ozGlass

Bottom: EPS+4ozCarbonInnegra alone?

And how much reinforcement over foilbox,strap inserts,leash...?

I am making a Dockstart board with XPS i had around, probably a beefier lam for knocks because i want it tough.
But after this i will build something 85l pretty similar to what you are making so i am very interested.

KdMaui said in an interview that the racers st the GWA event in Tarifa rode big 80-100l boards and tiny foils (600cm2) with big sails (6m up to 20kt).
Is that similar to what you saw in SFrancisco?.

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2022, 07:52:42 AM »
[quote author=Dontsink link=topic=37938.msg435176#msg435176 date=1648121669

KdMaui said in an interview that the racers st the GWA event in Tarifa rode big 80-100l boards and tiny foils (600cm2) with big sails (6m up to 20kt).
Is that similar to what you saw in SFrancisco?.

[/quote]

That’s exactly what I rode, but the winds were pretty light. Other guys were on 800 -1000 foils to go up wind better and 5m to 5.5m wings. Boards seem to be around body weight. As well as a bunch of folks on various equipment.

The schedule is:

4oz s glass
4oz carbon/innegra (plus extra over foot positions and holes)
1/8” Divinycell over standing area
4oz glass
.9lb eps core
4oz carbon/innegra (plus 3 or 4 patches over box)
4oz s glass

I’ll wrap the rails with the top and bottom as well.



DW:
Yes, mikes lab. Why do I have to cut down the box? It’s only 1/4” short from hitting my deck so can’t I just do 5 layers of carbon or something on top of it and then thin divinycell to the deck? Maybe glass in some countersunk g10 washers? I haven’t fit my mast head in to check where to put the screws yet but I’ll check.

Do you mean the box is so large I end up having to put the screws through the angled part so that is why I need to cut it down?

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2022, 10:40:58 AM »
See the issue. Red screw busts into yellow box. Angled screw doesn't work in a box deeper than 2.88 inches. That's why Alex designed a better box for foiling.



JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2022, 02:15:44 PM »
Thanks Dwight.

I measured it and it looks like I'm good by just a smidge - no angled bolts here. This is my current tuttle one, the new one should have the same holes. I could always use the more central holes as well.

I'm thinking to just use a g10 plate cut to the outline exactly of the carbon in the top of the tuttle, but leave enough to make a "washer" for the bolts on the edges. Then use DCell to bring the rest of the box to the skin.

That should do it, now I'm just worried about carrying around 100ccs of water above my tuttle head, haha.


« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 02:20:32 PM by JohnnyTsunami »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2022, 05:02:55 PM »
What does that Mikes Lab mast weigh? Curious because a Chrissy winger on vacation here in Florida, had a brand new state of the art F4 race foil and mast. He was showing it to me and I was floored by the weight (heavy). It must have been insanely stiff for racing. Hard core stuff.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 05:04:34 PM by Dwight (DW) »

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2022, 09:47:53 PM »
Shaping is done except for a lump and bump here and there. I decided to take the tail in a bit more and make it more rounded.

I shaped the rails by going about 1.5” on the deck and to the midline on the side and trying to make it uniform round. I just used 36 grit to rough it all and 60 grit for the rest. I hotwired chines in the bottom tapering off at 12” from the tail.

She’s looking slim now, I was worried it’s too small but my scale show me that it’s 77L at this point.

4’6” x 22 2/3 x 5 1/4”

I’ll definitely do some spackling as there are quite a few gouges that if I tried to sand them all out it would end up being much smaller.

Folks say to use DAP fast n final at a peanut butter consistency and then sand it down to the foam. Is this a good practice on the whole board and the divinycell as well to save weight even if I’m vacuuming it? What about between the divinycell and the core?

Next steps are to put on the divinycell deck patch with 4oz glass or carbon/innegra underneath. Then I’ll figure out my footstrap placing and get to work on my foil box monstrosity.


DW: The ML weights 3.2kg for the mast and wing. I use a torque wrench to assemble it so I don’t want to pull it apart atm. I think it’s a 104cm mast.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2022, 10:01:08 PM by JohnnyTsunami »

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2022, 12:16:09 PM »
I’ve been slowly working, trying to get this done for the weekend.

I used Gorilla glue to add spacers to the Tuttle and cabosil to glue my tracks to the Tuttle.

I cut the hole in the board with a router freehand. It was beautiful, but I had 4 more inches to go with a hand saw. I used a Hotwire and a few saw blades, eventually going with a sawzal blade by hand. It is extremely hard to keep it all square. In hindsight I would have made two templates out of wood for either side and used a hotwire. Or got a 6” cnc router foam cutting bit and a 1/2” collet router.

Gorilla gluing the box in was nerve wracking. The Tuttle must be perfectly aligned side to side and front to back or my foil would forever be tilted, but the tracks are less important. You could always fill in above the tracks and the plate would fit flush to the board, really just getting them spaced right and on center is the main issue. These boxes ended up being heavy, just around 2lbs when they were ready to install. I could have used the blue planet strongbox, except I have this race foil that sits waaaay back in the tracks. I set it up so at the extreme forward I can use my axis setup hopefully without having to move my straps.

The gorilla glue gets EVERYWHERE. My mast was installed and the box mostly held by friction while I inserted sticks to keep it aligned. The foil wanted to drop down in the back. I measured using an iPhone level to .1 accuracy. Comparing the aluminum adapter for the Tuttle on a flat surface and the mast/fuse connection point (which is flat), I needed the Tuttle to be sitting negative .8 degrees relative to the bottom of the board. It ended up being negative .4. This is fine for me, and actually having the nose of the board up slightly more would be fine as at high speeds I’m leaning way forward. Side to side I measured the board rail to the middle of the top of the mast which was exactly 42” on both sides, eyesight confirmed it’s good.

Fingers crossed it all looks good the the gg dries and the box isn’t sunken into the foam core too far.

If I did it again I’m not sure what I would have done differently besides put 3 pairs of gloves on.

I’m pretty relieved to get that out of the way. Next is footstrap inserts and divinycell deck, then just glassing both sides and finishing. I’ll probably do a white epoxy/microbaloon finish to the board to keep it light.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 12:25:01 PM by JohnnyTsunami »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2022, 12:44:21 PM »
you can cut the hole in the EPS with a drywall saw and 7 inch blade in a jig saw.

Dontsink

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2022, 03:19:13 PM »
A long drill bit will work fine for routering EPS.If the tip is wider than the rest just file it flush.And making a template is worth the little extra time for my two left hands.

Dontsink

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2022, 11:47:40 PM »
Now that i think of it, your foil box is a lot deeper than a standard 2 track.Much harder job.
But there are some extra long drill bits that might go all or most of the way.Or a xl jigsaw blade as Dwight says.
I prefer the template and router because it gives a very precise result with not much skill or experience (my case :) ).
If the fit is good there is less space to fill with adhesive afterwards.
Did you mix the GGlue with water?. It works good but gives little time as it cures quickly.

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2022, 02:08:21 AM »
I spread the gg on both surfaces after spraying with water out of a mister bottle. It was a good amount of working time.

Tonight I put cabosil on the bottom side after sanding in an effort to make it flat for glassing tomorrow. I cleaned up the box on the top of the board and used a router and sandpaper to flatten it to the deck.

Then I cut my 1/8” divinycell sheet which will go over the standing area. After tracing it I routed out the board, which took FOREVER. Don’t do it this way.

I used a wet out table for 4oz s glass cut to size, placed it in and covered with the dcell. Then I bagged it for a few hours for good measure just to suck the dcell to the deck. No epoxy will be removed, although I saw a video where a guy punched holes in the dcell for this purpose. I used some glass bubbles and put it in the edges of the core where the skin may not fit well. I like these microballoons, they are super super light compared to cabosil and a little goes a long way.

However, the color is sort of tan, not sure how that will work if I seal my board with it afterwards.

For finishing I assumed everyone did a hotcoat with pigment and microballoon filler, then sanded it down leaving the “brushed carbon” look and then covered with clear epoxy which can then be sanded to be uniform.

I have some white pigment I was planning on using and skipping the final clear coat. Is the above correct about the putty folks make up for finishing just to fill the weave a bit and avoid pinholes?

Dontsink

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Re: Wing Board Build 4'6" x 23" x 5.25" ~75-80L
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 03:20:11 AM »
Looking good, lots of progress!.
You could have stuck the Dcell on top and sanded the edges afterwards but it would not look as good i think.Is there another way?.

I have just bought a used Gast DOA pump,pretty old with no press dial.I am hoping it will suck enough without buying a service kit,have to buy a vacuometer to measure.
How much vacuum press do you use for bagging?

 


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