Author Topic: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)  (Read 85072 times)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2019, 05:17:41 AM »
Day 13 was killer.  There will be no discussion or future mention of day 12 aside from saying, it (I) sucked.  I couldn't talk Chan or Bill into going with me (the forecast was pretty grim and we are in a kind of funky wind system) so I showed up alone to 17-22 and the lot was empty.  This was great.  I parked 20 feet from the water, rigged right from my tailgate and was out in 5 minutes.  It is shorts weather now so no wetsuit slowdowns.  Love it!  The wind wasn't perfect but it was decent and on the far side I was in range with the 5.  Gorge Downwind Champs was running through so there was some great spectating from the water.  I had a really fun 45 minutes followed by an overpowered half hour.  I had some longer foiling reaches on the far side.  Low and slow but still up and yelling like a loon.  I have an impact vest now (after a hard hit on the session that never happened).  I was very happy for it yesterday.  My first foiling jibe effort was a disaster. 

After our first few days of riding we had realized that board size was holding us back from getting going.  We weren't feeling the knee start yet and the uphaul start was brutal on those boards.  Bill loaned me a larger foilboard and Chan started using the 6'6 that I had purchased for myself.  Eventually I bought a 6'10 (31 wide and fairly rectangular) Fanatic which was roughly the size of the Board Bill lent me.  That helped a lot and we did get pretty comfortable with the knee start.  Chop is workable.  A lot of current is much harder as it really wants to grab the foil and the air wing.  Being overpowered intensifies that but it is still doable.  So today we are going to try the smaller boards again.  I bought some footstraps and I am going to put on a wide and loose front strap for each of us to see how that goes.  We are expecting to go backwards for a bit but we figure this is a good time to transition.  Our toleration for humiliation is very high right now :) so here goes nothing.  The thought of less board to be pushed around by the chop and less weight to lift off (a lot less in both cases) is driving the change.  We may have to do a Monty Python style "run away" but we are committed to a few days of frustration.  Let's see how that goes...

« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 03:31:41 PM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2019, 07:34:28 AM »
So that's the picture you sent me. It was too small for detail on my phone, but it still looks like ripples on a millpond. I need a five. I'm going to stage a sit-in on the front door of Big Winds until I get one.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2019, 03:45:28 PM »
I have a couple days on the smaller board now and it is going better than I would have guessed.  The knee starts are pretty solid now and it is much more manageable in chop when up and riding.  Chop and current can really have their way with a wide and chunky board.  I finally committed to DW's advice and switched down to the Iwa from the M200.  I also slid it all the way forward in the track.  That did  it.  No more "getting foiled".  The Iwa is allowing me to get situated, point off the wind and pump up onto a foil.  I was fighting to keep the M-200 down the whole time during that same process.  What a nice change.  I feel like some of the preliminary steps are becoming more familiar now.  My own hesitation to fully commit is probably my biggest hurdle at this point.  The front foot strap is great.  That is helping me a lot.  I am going to put the back one on as well and get Chan on the same program (need a few washers).  I am looking forward to some more stable wind.  Yeeeooow!

PonoBill

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2019, 04:21:15 PM »
I went out for a second time after lunch with the GL240 wing I borrowed from Big Winds. It didn't help that I was exhausted. Jibes in the swell that were easy this morning were impossible. And of course, that means falling in, which = getting back up = downward spiral.

The GL wing is going to take more oomph to get me up but it's far less draggy than the M280. I should be able to get it rolling sufficiently with just a little more wind or a bigger wing. The 5M duotone I borrowed this morning would have worked nicely, but I didn't have the wing then.

The learning curve has been flattened quite a bit by having almost the right gear. We're at about 80 percent now. When these things are getting dusty on shelves this will be easier to learn. If I had a 5 and a 6 to begin with, I'd be further along, but I wouldn't have learned as much of the basics of handling the wing.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2019, 05:02:50 AM »
You looked great on the 5 when we showed up.  For sure half of the learning curve is working out the gear.  The right sized foil and getting it centered under an easily attainable stance is a huge deal.  I've been way too focused on mast position and not thinking enough about front wing position.  My new thinking is: figure out where your front foot is going when surface bound (on my board there is really one spot that works), measure a comfortable stance width back from that, center the front wing on that measurement.  I am guessing at where the center of pressure is on the front foil.  I know that I got closer to right yesterday (at least for that windspeed and wing).  It just felt so much more predictable and controlled.   Of course, I still landed on the foil twice and have a new knuckle on one of my shins.  Sweet.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2019, 06:35:16 AM »
I can provide some setup clues. On a really small board, there is going to be only one place you can stand, where the volume of the board balances out. Meaning, youre not sinking the tail or nose and you feel comfortable, and it looks trimmed on the water.

The next step is finding where to place the foil in the track relative to your, needed, standing position. When the foil is too far back, popping up is hard obviously. Get it too far forward, and the board loses its mind. By losing its mind, it starts to get unstable standing. It wont track straight. It wont paddle straight. It flies out of control.

Put the foil in the middle of the track and then bump it forward or back in 1/2 increments. Once you get close, start bumping it in 1/4 increments until you find perfection. You want to be on that fine edge where it flies easy, without stepping over the point where everything becomes too technical and unruly.

PonoBill

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2019, 08:45:48 AM »
Jeremy mentioned on Facebook that he had to move his stance substantially rearward to fly the GL wing. It got me thinking about the difficulties I've been having in getting any foil to fly. Weight is certainly part of it, and yeah, I'm working on that (again), but I'm also using the foot positioning and stance I use for foil surfing, and it's probably wrong.

Little Fugly only has a Tuttle, so I can't really fiddle with wing position, but it's big enough (6'11") to be stable in a fairly wide range of positions, so I'm going to try moving both feet back a bit to see what happens. I've been putting my rear foot directly on the mast and front foot in the frontmost strap position. I'm going to take the strap off and try to find the best position.

Of course, the river/lake is a millpond this morning, and will be totally wonky tomorrow, but Monday we're supposed to get back to strong westerlies instead of the funky gusty crap we've been dealing with. I know to most people a gusty 17 to 22 sounds great, but it sucks for the Gorge. We need some blow-dryer 25.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Chan

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #82 on: July 21, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
Moving down to the Slingshot 510 with the smaller Kai wing from the 66 Iwa combo was challenging.  The board and foil responded much more to chop.  The margin for error on knee starts and low speed/height foiling was very tight.  Cruising, felt much more in control.  Id like to try it in smoother conditions, but the forecast is for more strong wind and swell.  Maybe adding the front foot strap will do the trick.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2019, 04:14:21 AM »
Maybe adding the front foot strap will do the trick.

Alright, alright.  Hint taken.  I mounted Chan's straps (both) yesterday and added the back strap to my board as well.  The straps actually center really well over the front wing.  I am using the front and rear insert of each cluster so we have about 2.5 inches of front/rear slide in each footstrap.  That seems like it should be enough.  This video (next post) is the larger (7'6) version of the boards that we have.  He is getting up exactly where I am but his 7'6 has a foot of extra nose over the 6'6.  That is pretty cool because the only real spot to get up puts you right in the footsraps on my board.  Almost no footwork.  That works for me as my foots almost don't work :).  He never moves his back foot in front of the mast or even to centered on the mast (which is good, because the inserts don't allow that).  We will see how that goes.  Best news: Tracking says I have a new SPG 4 meter showing up today.  My begging landed me first dibs on a wing that did not make it through quality control (minor cosmetic deal on the leading edge).  SPG emailed the image below and I typed "bill me" at my fastest 14 words a minute.  So stoked!

« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 04:28:30 AM by Admin »

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2019, 04:15:08 AM »

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2019, 05:55:57 AM »
Really fun 15 MPH day yesterday.  Classic that the 4 arrives and we finally start seeing some light wind.  All the same, my 5 SPG is awesome in this condition and it was a nice, mellow change.  I got to work on pumping up onto a foil and setting down.  Slowly becoming more comfortable with that process and I am letting it stay up a little longer each day.  I had to sit out a few days with a foil cut/bruise and it left me feeling protective and too cautious (and I hate being sidelined).  I had to take off the back strap because it was too far back.  I could get in the strap easily enough and it made it really easy to get up but I was struggling to get forward enough to level out.  I felt like I wanted the front strap a bit further forward as well but I am out of inserts.  I wonder if sliding the foil back a little will accomplish the same thing.  Trying that today. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 05:57:47 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2019, 08:05:45 AM »
Moving the foil back will help that, but if it messes up the balance of the board on the water....tail sinking, nose too high, then that is not good either.

Its OK to foil with just a front strap. Lots of people prefer this. It makes weight shift easy, and allows you to get comfortable (not burning one leg out) on long reaches where wind power can greatly affect the pressure balance needed to ride the foil.

PonoBill

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2019, 08:17:41 AM »
I really needed a five M yesterday. I went out in the morning and gave up after two passes without enough wind to get even close to lifting. Came back at 3:30 after a thoroughly unproductive day at the shop to a little more wind, but still not enough to power up. I managed to pump up in some gusts that were easy to see coming, but as usual, the gusts were followed by even less wind and I couldn't stay up, even when I turned downwind and tried to just use the swells for power.

Worse yet, I wore my knee out pumping like a lunatic. It woke me up a half-dozen times last night. Better this morning, but the wind forecast looks grim. I have to take Diane to the eye doc anyway.

Being old is not for sissies.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2019, 08:39:01 AM »
Moving the foil back will help that, but if it messes up the balance of the board on the water....tail sinking, nose too high, then that is not good either.

Its OK to foil with just a front strap. Lots of people prefer this. It makes weight shift easy, and allows you to get comfortable (not burning one leg out) on long reaches where wind power can greatly affect the pressure balance needed to ride the foil.

Hi Dwight, I hear you.  The board does trim better (on the water) with my stance a little further forward than the footstraps allow.  I like the way they have the inserts positioned on the site image below.  I wish they had produced it this way :).  That shows about a 4 inch gap between that back screw options and front screw options for each footstrap.  In actuality, the inserts have no center space. It all runs together as one cluster.  The back of the clusters are in the same spot as in the image but the clusters do not extend as far forwards towards the nose.  In the image it would have been possible (for instance) to center your foot on the mast or even in front of it.  There are no inserts in front of the mast track in actuality.  The frustrating thing is that it is very close.  An extra inch or so forward with my front foot would do it.  The drag is that I really like using the straps.  It is a very controlled feeling.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 08:52:58 AM by Admin »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: The end of the beginning - SPG Wings (photo heavy post)
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2019, 10:32:48 AM »
No rear strap is a thing with wind powered foiling, kiters and windsurfers. Windsurfers often just step all over the rear strap. Kinda hard to just step on straps with a wing sail. No harness for support.

With kite foiling I used a front foot hook for years. Nothing in the rear. My wife still foils this way. A rear strap or hook was, and is, a nuisance unless youre into jumping or racing. You really need to be able to move that REAR foot way forward to keep nose weight going 100mph and not burn the legs out.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 10:34:42 AM by Dwight (DW) »