Author Topic: The Threat  (Read 4254 times)

Area 10

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2019, 11:02:42 PM »
Yeah, the BBC are paid for by UK TV licence payers’ money, and so have a remit to be as impartial as they can be. Which means that they will try to give both sides of the argument if they can. In general, when the British public want to know what’s going on, they trust the BBC more than any other source. Alongside the National Health Service it is considered one of the great British institutions that contributes to a fairer and more civilised nation. However it is very much under threat these days. It will be a great shame when it is gone, because I think it will accelerate the social and economic divisions in our society.

A-10, I’m not clear about whether a system of checks and balances exists for the BBC nor the NHS.
They do.

Area 10

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2019, 11:46:03 PM »
The challenge with news media is that both sides are using some really sleazy approaches to bring "news" to more respectable (barely) outlets. Say you have a completely fictional story, you check it out and can't confirm anything. So instead of spiking it as you would have when media was a little bit honorable, you feed it to some completely bogus "news" outlet (there are thousands of them on both sides)--or maybe you dump it to ten such sites who have names like "honestnewstoday" or "therealstory" or some such newspeak. When they can spare time from creating bullshit memes to feed into Facebook for useful idiots to share, they publish the completely fictional story. Now the news outlet with some modicum of respectability can publish their own version, attributing it to numerous source on the web, and even providing links to attribute as the "source".

Bottom line, you have to have your bullshit detector turned to eleven to have a hope of seeing through the chaff.

This is the reason I've been reading so many books. You can fact check the shit out of them. I did that with Comey's book and I'm working through "the threat" which I finished both listening to and reading a few days ago. I have copious notes and I'm digging through them. So far, squeaky clean. Both of them.

Here's the scary part, everything is a lot worse than I thought. And I thought it was a clusterfuck.
Is this a fair summary of the book?

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/andrew-mccabe-the-threat/

PonoBill

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2019, 12:19:06 AM »
Not really. It's essentially a summary of the last few chapters. The book is procedural, detailing how the FBI works and what it's function is, the first two-thirds is a backdrop, a very careful explanation of why the detailed investigation process and checks and balances inside the FBI serve justice, and why they are important. It's useful in understanding why the investigations in the final section proceeded as they did, and why investigations into fast-moving situations like Benghazi seemed to be covering up, when really they were proceeding deliberately, consistent with a policy that has proven to be effective over a long history. It's a bit slow moving, but the background is necessary. It's part of the reason why I find the book to be convincing, even though there is clear personal animus. The source of it is plain.

I'm a little more than halfway through my fact checking, I haven't found anything that is questionable, and there is a huge body of information available. The media reported all the issues in detail, Their analysis did not always agree with McCabes, but the underlying facts are identical--so far.
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Bean

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2019, 08:26:52 AM »
According to the OIG report February 2018:

...McCabe lacked candor when he told Comey, or made statements that led Comey to believe, that McCabe had not authorized the disclosure and did not know who did

...When questioned under oath by FBI agents from INSD, McCabe lacked candor when he told the agents that he had not authorized the disclosure to the WSJ and did not know who did

...when questioned under oath by the OIG in a recorded interview, McCabe lacked candor when he stated: (a) that he was not aware of Special Counsel having been authorized to speak to reporters around October 30

...when questioned under oath by the OIG in a recorded interview during which he contradicted his prior statements by acknowledging that he had authorized the disclosure to the WSJ

...McCabe’s decision to confirm the existence of the CF Investigation through an anonymously sourced quote, recounting the content of a phone call with a senior Department official in a manner designed to advance his personal interests at the expense of Department leadership, was clearly not within the public interest exception

https://static01.nyt.com/files/2018/us/politics/20180413a-doj-oig-mccabe-report.pdf

PonoBill

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2019, 09:18:34 AM »
Yes, that's covered extensively in the last section of the book. I haven't gotten that far in fact-checking, though I expected to read the OIG's report and some of the media coverage. It's an interesting process. Since you brought it up I jumped ahead and read the OIG's report and a Washington post article on the initiation of the investigation in 2017. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I will say though at first blush I don't see a conflict in the underlying facts between what McCabe says in his book and what the OIG or Washington Post say. Certainly, there's a different perspective on the matter, but that's why I read the book in the first place. 
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Bean

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2019, 09:25:36 AM »
I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective PB.

eastbound

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2019, 01:20:11 PM »
ive got some wood to saw getting there--it's a tough read--shd be--it's written like i would imagine a concise detailed accurate FBI repor would be written--just doesnt flow so good
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PonoBill

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2019, 01:47:35 PM »
I warned you. The background stuff and detail about how the FBI works is necessary. I for one didn't really realize that their function is almost purely investigative. I guess I should have since it's right there in the name. The internally imposed burden of proof for almost any case is remarkable and important to the story.
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Area 10

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Re: The Threat
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2019, 01:48:13 PM »
Has anyone here read “Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic” by David Frum. The Independent newspaper carried the following blurb, which made it sound interesting:

“Many Republicans are, of course, deeply hostile to the Trump project, and as a conservative commentator and former speechwriter for George W Bush, David Frum provides a right-of-centre perspective on the direction of America since Trump came to power. In fact he argues that Trump is actually opposed to fundamental conservative principles, and is an opportunist who has allied himself to a political party which, to its shame, has sold its soul for short-term gain. Frum’s analysis of what he terms this “repressive plutocracy” now in charge makes cogent and compelling reading and should concern anyone who cares about the future of democracy”.