Author Topic: Leash Use.  (Read 63909 times)

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #60 on: August 27, 2015, 07:18:23 AM »
Yes, the answer isn't simple, but this is a better one than no leashes at all, especially for beginners.
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

PonoBill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #61 on: August 27, 2015, 07:22:59 AM »
Yup, I know, entanglement is certainly possible. Happened to me at Lanes, just pure luck that I didn't drown. Never made me think it wasn't important to have one on. Wearing a PFD puts you at a nice height for a powerboat to run over your head. It happens. I don't know the real statistics. It's just a guess that Kalama is right, but all my experience tells me it's a good guess.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #62 on: August 27, 2015, 07:25:58 AM »
You don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2015, 07:52:26 AM »
You don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

You don't want phrase that pays Americana to become the enemy of reality and judgment.

Of our 4 SUP deaths in Oregon 2 were directly caused by leashes, one was a heart attack (wearing a pfd).

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2015, 08:08:01 AM »
I don't understand what you mean by that phrase.
Pau Hana 11' Big EZ Ricochet (Beluga)

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2015, 08:13:11 AM »
I don't understand what you mean by that phrase.

Easily popularized phrases that have a snappy ring but lack substance.


Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2015, 08:14:32 AM »
I think it makes sense here. If something makes things 95% or 99% better, then do the exceptions outweigh the benefits?
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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2015, 08:29:27 AM »
I think it makes sense here. If something makes things 95% or 99% better, then do the exceptions outweigh the benefits?

Frankly, the slogan should be, leashes likely save lives in some situations and have taken them in others.

This is actually not related to the topic at hand (Andres' death).  He was an instructor and an experienced paddler.  He understood leashes, PFD's and risk.  A decal would have had no impact on that.  He made choice. 

« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 08:41:19 AM by Admin »

standuped

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2015, 08:34:22 AM »
I know the man to fix this problem. The man who comes prepared.  Mentally and Physically.
Florida gear.. Bic 12'x31"~207L.. JP Fusion 10'8"x34"~190L..Angulo custom 9'6"x33"~160L.. SIC Fish 9'5"x29.6"~145L..Epic gear elite paddle~7"x75"..Oregon gear..JP Fusion#2..Foote Triton 10'4"x34"~174L.. Surftec Generator 10'6"x32.3"~167L..Kialoa Pipes 6 3/8"x75"...Me 6'1" 220 lbs circa 1959

southwesterly

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2015, 08:36:41 AM »
I know the man to fix this problem. The man who comes prepared.  Mentally and Physically.

Kenny Powers!

Badger

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2015, 08:37:27 AM »
Right now I am very thankful that at least we are not required by law to wear a PFD. Please lets not push this so far that it might encourage the CG to require the wearing of PFDs on paddleboards. We need to prevent that at all costs.

Wearing a leash, yes.  Wearing a PFD, optional.

Ultimately, PFDs should only be required on board if you are not wearing a leash.





« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 09:02:26 AM by Badger »
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feet

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2015, 08:47:12 AM »
Uh, the USCG has already done that...

The Coast Guard determined that SUPs were “vessels” when operating “beyond the narrow confines of
a surfing, swimming or bathing area.” A vessel, according to 1 USC 3 “includes ever description of
watercraft or other artificial contrivance used, or capable of being used, as a means of transportation on
water.”
OK, but what does that mean to a boarding officer?
It means that if you see a SUP operating:
A. In the surf or swimming/bathing area, leave it alone.
B. On other waters, treat it as a kayak or other paddlecraft.
What boating safety regulations apply to a SUP?
Like any paddlecraft, a SUP operating outside a surfing or swimming area is subject to the NAVRLES,
carriage requirements for PFDs, VDS, sound producing device, navigation lights, and accident
reporting.

Badger

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2015, 08:50:54 AM »
Mr feet,

Carriage of PFDs is mandatory yes, but we are not required to wear them.

You left out that you are only required to carry a PFD if you are using a paddle, oar or engine as a means of propulsion. PFDs are not required on board if you are paddling the board with your hands.

SUPs are not required to carry a VDS.

All that's required for nav lights is a working flashlight which only needs to be turned on when warning an approaching boat.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 09:20:40 AM by Badger »
Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
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kjulks

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2015, 09:12:05 AM »
"I still absolutely believe that leashes save a 100 times more lives than they would ever take."
Here's where things start to get concerning for me for two reasons:

First, this is a pure utility, benefits over cost argument. If this becomes the industry-standard silver bullet, with the intended sphere of influence on beginners, that 100th accident that results in a snag death is a direct result of the leash. Who speaks for them? 99 saved, awesome, never gonna hear me wish death upon someone. 1 dead as the cost of doing business? Not ok.

Second, that might be true where Dave paddles, but the plural of anecdote is not data. We can't take the issue of safety and apply a one-size-fits-all mentality.

The onus is on the facilitator. The message cannot be "leashes", it must be nuanced and address all conditions and factors if it is to be effective. As far as forgoing the good in pursuit of the perfect, I'd suggest we don't settle for 99% effective when it's just so easy to teach the lessons that would account for the remaining 1%. If you're gonna do something, do it right.

feet

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2015, 09:18:07 AM »
So are you one of those guys that straps his PFD to the deck?

It's hard to get through all of the pissing and moaning here about leashes/pfds/government regulations, complaints that make many of you seem grumpy and selfish.

The industry has done a great job selling the sport, but not so great in education users about safety.

Many of you fail to see the value in redundant safety practices, ie downwinders with a type of leash AND at least an inflatable belt pfd. There are a whole bunch of variables that can impact ones ability to self rescue let alone swim; perhaps the biggest being fatigue and weather conditions. 


 


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