8'10 Sunova SPEEED

[magentawave]

I'm digging all of these discussions by Bert on design and created a note in Evernote so I'll have them handy to watch again later.

This might be off topic, but here is a video of Bert Burger discussing the SPEEED.

Cheat.... you are right.... it's all explained in the vid.

[stoneaxe]

This might be off topic,

Almost spit coffee.....

[Dwight (DW)]

This might be off topic, but here is a video of Bert Burger discussing the SPEEED.

Cheat.... you are right.... it's all explained in the vid.

I really enjoy listening to Bert. He's a hero over on the shapers forum.

I think his belief that having thin rails submerged, and held down by water, makes stability, is not really what's creating his stability in my testing.

My testing suggests the stability he or anyone is getting from thin boards is coming from having your center of gravity low. Feet flush with the water's surface. His shape is doing exactly this.

To prove its not the rails being held down by water, you can shape two very thin boards, both putting your feet flush with the water. One with a full rail, the other prone board thin and well underwater. The full rail will be much more stable.

The miss understanding comes from the fact that almost all thick rail boards in the past, put us way about the waters surface, high and dry and unstable. So just the volume take-away from going to thinner rails lowered the rider to a more stable position on the water, not high above the water.

[cantSUPenough]

This might be off topic, but here is a video of Bert Burger discussing the SPEEED.

Cheat.... you are right.... it's all explained in the vid.

I really enjoy listening to Bert. He's a hero over on the shapers forum.

I think his belief that having thin rails submerged, and held down by water, makes stability, is not really what's creating his stability in my testing.

My testing suggests the stability he or anyone is getting from thin boards is coming from having your center of gravity low. Feet flush with the water's surface. His shape is doing exactly this.

To prove its not the rails being held down by water, you can shape two very thin boards, both putting your feet flush with the water. One with a full rail, the other prone board thin and well underwater. The full rail will be much more stable.

The miss understanding comes from the fact that almost all thick rail boards in the past, put us way about the waters surface, high and dry and unstable. So just the volume take-away from going to thinner rails lowered the rider to a more stable position on the water, not high above the water.

I don't know much about these things, but it sounds logical.  However the 8'10" speeed is 4 5/8 thick - isn't that as thick as most boards?  Or is the distribution different and therefore you ride lower?

[TallDude]

Bert truly is the rock star of shapers. His boards go to eleven!

[Dwight (DW)]

I don't know much about these things, but it sounds logical.  However the 8'10" speeed is 4 5/8 thick - isn't that as thick as most boards?  Or is the distribution different and therefore you ride lower?

His deck is domed, so your feet ride flush with the water. The thickness is measured at the stringer, so its meaningless for this discussion.

[Tom]

My shaper is a firm believe that thinner rails are more stable and I agree. Another benefit is that side chop comes over the top and pushes the rail back down rather than giving that twitchy  bumping you get from thick boxy rails.

[baddog]

I think his belief that having thin rails submerged, and held down by water, makes stability, is not really what's creating his stability in my testing.

I've been following along on the Burt, Sunova, Speeed threads and all the videos; my experience has matched everything Burt has expounded upon.  The flex video was a real lightbulb as to why all those multi-glueup / stringer boards I had never hit the mark.

I'm willing to accept his assertions regarding thin rails and stability at face value.  I've observed my tail is running partially submerged even with a forward standing position and it definitely seems to contribute to both pitch (forward and aft) and roll (lateral) stability.

Burt's pretty nutty when it comes to testing his theories; I would bet money he's shaped the same board with both full and thin rails to prove it to himself.

[SUStenance]

I had the privilege to catch some waves on Creek’s SPEEED this morning. The waves were somewhat small, mushy, and the wind was light onshore. At first, it felt, as expected more “tippy” than my Angulo 9’, since I was giving away ~2 inches in width and length. I lost my balance initially when I was chasing after the first wave, as the conditions were a bit lumpy. However, I realized that the “balance adjustments” necessary were subtle, as once I determined not to “over compensate”, the board was manageable and stable to paddle. I was able then to catch the next wave, and get what was the best ride of the session up to that point. The board allowed me to catch waves that I did not think I was going to (in fact, one that I decided that I needed to “pull up” on, I caught anyways).

The board, which IMHO is appropriately named, has excellent speed. In general, speed is a great asset and today it proved necessary get around sections and get into the “inside” wave face that developed -- if you could make it. I also found it very maneuverable (which I found necessary on one ride to avoid running over Creek and my board floating in the soup  ), and very stable when surfing. Even though this board is gave me what I needed to easily paddle into waves, it also was able to handle a late “foamy” takeoff.  Overall, I had a lot of fun on this board during the 30 minutes or so I was using it.

Granted I do not have the experience of most Zoners, as I’ve only owned three boards and can count on two hands the number of boards I’ve surfed. However, I think this is a very good board and I am glad Creek has brought it (and the other Bert Burger designs) to our attention.

Thanks again, Creek! 

[beached]

I don't know much about these things, but it sounds logical.  However the 8'10" speeed is 4 5/8 thick - isn't that as thick as most boards?  Or is the distribution different and therefore you ride lower?

His deck is domed, so your feet ride flush with the water. The thickness is measured at the stringer, so its meaningless for this discussion.

I've found domed decks add to instability. it's like trying to stand on a log versus on a piece of plywood.

[kliss99]

STC, can you give a comparison between the Speeed and Prowave?

Thanks, Ken

[supthecreek]

Hi Kliss.... I really can't, because I have come so far in the weeks since I last surfed my Prowave.
I was thinking I need to take them both to the beach and swap back and forth to really understand what everything means now.

The Prowave was always meant to be my goto winter, freezing, big surf board.... at 9'6 x 31.5 and 153 liters.... it's not apples to apples.
A fair comparison would be a smaller Prowave vs the Speeed

What I do know, is almost a given, because of significant size differences.... the Speeed is looser and snaps tighter turns. I need better waves to explore the speed of my Speeed, but today hinted at how quickly it accelerates.

They are perfect quiver mates because they each serve a different purpose and condition.

[johnysmoke]

Awesome looking board!

[supthecreek]

Had fun on a Sunday road trip... met up with Zoner "Eastbound" for a fun session in some clean little waves.

Water swapped for his sweet carbon 8'10 Allwave LTD and got some great rides on it!
He did well on my Speeed!

My cam only films for 29 minutes so not much footage...

Here's a shorty that hints to how nicely the Speeed surfs

[spookini]

Lookin' good Creek...  -- and a heck of a lot better than lookin' up at your ugly mug in a GoPro board-mount video!!