SUP-Windsurf Combo Boards , Perfect match or impossible dream?

[jjue]

As  a  inland  windsurfer coming   to  SUP   and  riding  a  new hybrid  SUP/ Windsurf board  ( the Bic Jungle )  .. . I have been collecting   a variety of links that  I found helpful and  thought  I would organize them and put them in one place .

Here  is  a nice thread about   some of the design issues that I think are important  in  hybrid  SUP / Windsurf boards ..  One of the issues that is raised is the  issue of  the surf rocker of   SUP boards interfering with their performance as   longboard  Sailboards  , and also the  need or lack thereof a retractable daggerboard.
http://www.boards.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19345&PN=1&TPN=26

Here is a nice  youtube  introduction to  various  Sup/windsurf hybrid boards available


I   found and enjoyed this   article  from PonoBill  from a while back  about longboard  sailing on  SUP boards
http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/2007/02/25/standup-longboard-sailing-and-surfing-101/


The Longboard windsurfing site   is  a nice  site discussing various  aspects of the SUP/hybrid   boards
Here is a somewhat critical  viewpoint concerning the SUP /hybrid   wave sailing boards   as compared to   dedicated Longboard windsurfers such as the Kona  One .   It raises some issues concerning  wave sailing boards for those of us landlocked inland  folks who are interested in inland lake and river sailing  as opposed to wwave sailing
http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/opinion/a-growing-sport-the-longboard-illusion/

Longboard windsurfing also has a nice article  about Jeff Henderson and  his longboard / SUP wave sailing
http://www.lbwindsurfing.com/wave-sailing/the-glide-the-new-sport-of-longboard-wavesailing/

Jeff , of course , has a nice  dedicated  longboard surfing and sailing web site that has alot of info concerning sailing SUP's

http://www.hotsailsmaui.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=4

Right now   , I think  I have  found   several categories of boards

Dedicated light wind performance long board windsurfers , like the Kona One  and the RRD Longstyler  , these tend to have a step tail rather than a surf tail to aid in windsurfing performance and have less rocker in the tail then the    more dedicated SUP boards , and also be narrower then most SUP boards , and all have retractable daggerboards , and footstrap inserts.   Some folks have  used these for standup paddling but most of the reviews I have read said that the  Standup performance  of these boards   signficantly suffers compared to  dedicated SUP boards.

Then there are a variety of   SUP boards with mast step  , but without   daggerboards or center fins  , these are wider then the lightwinds  longboard windsurfers  and  generally have shorter and smaller surf  oriented fins.

There are   three SUP  boards   that have   some kind of center fin ... or daggerboard ...
The  Bic Jungle with  a removal daggerboard 
The  older 12-6 starboard with  a bolt on center fin
and the new this year 12-6 starboard   with  a full retractable  daggerboard

Foot strap inserts are available on the Mistral Pacifico ,  and the Bic JUngle . 

My own personal experience   , so far , being a landlocked , non surf oriented SUP/windsurf    guy  is that   for me   the most important  points  with one  of these boards  is ,
1/ good performance   in straight ahead paddling , touring on  flat water
2/ good glide and up wind performance  in  very light winds  sailing  for which I think a daggerboard is very useful
3/ the ability to plane well and with daggerboard up or removed  and good upwind  performance railing the board in planing  conditions .
4/ I think  a daggerboard   will be much less an issue for those who are just using their  SUP  for wave sailing and paddle surfing .

So far  , I have  been very happy  with the Jungle , and  think the new Starboard 12-6 with  a fully retractable or removable   daggerboard
may be a real winner...
One of the issues for a windsurfer  , is that we  do like to plane in moderate winds  and   one of the criticism  of  SUP   boards is they are really not designed to plane well as opposed to dedicated longboard windsurfers with the  step tails which effectively contributes  to earlier and more effective planing

I enjoyed this discussion with   "nobody" on this longboard windsurfing thread , in which he explains how the step tail  works ...

http://www.forum.lbwindsurfing.com/longboard-discussion/starboard-dealer-meeting-t524.html

Unfortunately adding a step tail to a longboard apparently   creates   more drag in  SUP paddle mode  , (see the UK  boards  thread  earlier ... )
and  I   have read can be  a detriment in trying to standup paddle these windsurf longboards.

Again my own personal experience is that the Jungle does plane well and is fun in that mode..despite having a SUP type design and surf type rocker. . I have also heard that the  Mistral Pacifico performs well as well in planing mode   although may not be the greatest in paddle surfing because of the  flatter rocker ??

I have been interested to see that a lot of folks here have been long term windsurfers prior to getting into  SUP and would love to hear their  thoughts on all of this stuff.....

[jjue]

Sup  boards  when used as   windsurfers have been thought  of primarily  as light wind boards , but some of the hybrids  actually do well in high  winds as well .
Just  had a nice session in  gusty  fall north wind lake  sailing with wind gusts to  near 30mph   on a 5.4 sail on my bic jungle .   Everyone else on the lake were on  free ride  boards , I was the only guy on  a  SUP or longboard ..  The foot strap inserts that   are on the Bic Jungle do not seem quite right to me and are too far back on the board for me .. so I just sailed without straps  ..  and had  a blast .. it does take a while  getting used to sailing  without straps in high winds , but  it actually is quite a lot of fun and a free feeling  moving around a lot on the board  especially in shifty , gusty conditions , getting way  back or  moving forward .. an SUP sailboard   really is nice and just glides very well through the  lulls and  planes nicely powered up  .. certainly with a  small surf fin  and tail rocker   , I didn't acheive the planing efficiency and speeds of the  guys on their free ride boards but   I  had  super  fun nevertheless ,  and was planing   nicely and smoothly  and  was able to walk around up and back  on  the board  which  gave a nice surfy feeling to windsurfing , which is fun   !  The versatility of the hybrid boards  amaze me .. been standup surfing at the coast ,flat water  paddling   in the delta , with sea kayakers and   , windsurfing in  light and high winds...    super fun !

By the way   I found this    article about a  pro with ankle  injuries doing all kinds of amazing things on  windsurfers without straps .. and  in one of the  issues of the Standup Journal there is a  cool pic of   Naish  sailing a big standup board withoug straps   with a kite sail ... .

http://forums.windsurfingmag.com/showthread.php?p=1727

[PonoBill]

All of my SUP boards have mast tracks or inserts, and so does my favorite longboard (JL 11'7"). I prefer them over my windurfing gear any day. It's pretty odd for me to be praying for light wind, but I do. I don't have footstraps on any of them. I just have feet like a gecko.

[jjue]

All of my SUP boards have mast tracks or inserts, and so does my favorite longboard (JL 11'7"). I prefer them over my windurfing gear any day. It's pretty odd for me to be praying for light wind, but I do. I don't have footstraps on any of them. I just have feet like a gecko.

Hey  PonoBill ,   I have been looking at some of your  old stuff about this  subject over on the Ponoblog , nice stuff ,  and found this  very nice  article about   windsurfing your SUP     in high winds and waves  ....  sweet !!!!     right on! ....   not just    for  light winds  but  all the  time  ...  Thought  I would post up links for any   one interested.

http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/2007/02/12/wild-and-wooly-longboard-sailing/

And why windsurfing  on Sup's is so nice ... 

http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/2007/02/14/why-windsurfing-on-longboards-will-be-the-next-big-thing/

[rkdjones]

Anybody out there tried sailing a Starboard Mr. Easy?  I might buy one and would like to mess around with sailing on the lake in light air.
Robert

[PonoBill]

Hey  PonoBill ,   I have been looking at some of your  old stuff about this  subject over on the Ponoblog

Wow, those are really old articles--the dates have been changed when I rebuilt the database--they're probably from 2006.
I haven't seen the growth I expected in longboard sailing, which proves I know nothing about trends. I sure enjoy it though, I should probably update those articles and post them on Ke Nalu.

[jjue]

I have been looking for  a vid  that  really captures   the   SUP/ windsurf experience....  I think  this one pretty much  hits in on the mark ...
This is an 11'4" SUP  , that the  rider  put in a custom  mast hole ,  For me   the   experience isn't all about very light air wave  riding or gliding about but also  doing some real nice windsurfing   moving around on the board without straps  , powered up ... ..  for those of us who sail,  this can  be a real nice part of the
SUP experience..


http://www.youtube.com/v/oLlCrAF9kt8&hl

[stoneaxe]

I'm going to buy the new light wind sail setup that Starboard has to check it out. I just bought a 9-8 for my wife with a mast box and my 12-6 has one in it. I know she'll get more hooked on the sailing idea. I still like to paddle even in windy conditions.

Speaking of which...hey Bill...send that centerboard out...

[jjue]

I'm going to buy the new light wind sail setup that Starboard has to check it out. I just bought a 9-8 for my wife with a mast box and my 12-6 has one in it. I know she'll get more hooked on the sailing idea. I still like to paddle even in windy conditions.

Speaking of which...hey Bill...send that centerboard out...

Cool Stoneaxe!   ..  here  is   a vid  that I found  of   sailing on the Starboard  9-8  .

[jjue]

Anybody out there tried sailing a Starboard Mr. Easy?  I might buy one and would like to mess around with sailing on the lake in light air.
Robert

Hi rkdjones,   I found this   comparison of the different    starboards including the Mr. easy   both paddling and lake sailing      by  easyrider on  a different thread  , that might be helpful

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1728.msg13871#msg13871

[shapeshifter]

sure looks like sufing a sail "board" has been around for quite some time...



Grand Haven (Michigan) Daily Tribune  October 7, 1963:

"October Surf Riding Offers Thrills

Bob Beaton, 16, uses his summer sailfish, minus sail, as a surfboat.  His skindiving ‘wet’ suit keeps him warm.  He was riding the waves Sunday and reports:  “I’ll still be out here in November if the breakers are coming in.”  Bob is the son of Dr. James H. Beaton of Grand Rapids.  The Beatons have a summer home here at 105 Poplar Ridge.  (Tribune photo)"

...werd.