Which SIC for a downwind Chick?

[Off-Shore]

We have a lady paddler in our group who is looking to choose a downwind SIC board. The choices we have are all from the Cobra factory.
She is 5’11” (180cm) and 143 – 150lbs (65 - 68 kg) depending on the day.. She has paddled my SIC F16 custom (from Maui) and loves it..

Here is the choice she has with the weights given to me by the distributor here

1. Bullet 14' SCC (28.5 lbs)
2. Bullet 14' SCC/ with A.S.S. (28.8 lbs)
3. Bullet 14 TWC (36 lbs)
4. F14 GC (29.8 lbs)
5. F16 GC/A.S.S. (31.7 lbs)

Many thanks for your help

[Area 10]

What are your conditions like, and how experienced is she? Also, are you thinking about the V1 or V2 Bullets?

[Off-Shore]

What are your conditions like, and how experienced is she? Also, are you thinking about the V1 or V2 Bullets?

She will be ocean downwinding in 15 - 30 knots and then coastal cruising in lower wind speeds. She is experienced and has done many downwinds borrowing friends boards including Naish Glides and my F16 and does well. I would not say she is strong in terms of brute strength, but she is good in terms of core stability, technique and timing etc, so a lighter board would be better. I am assuming these are all V2 from Cobra and are all 2014 versions.

[Area 10]

Thanks, but I was hoping for a bit more information about your DW conditions. How big is the swell, typically, eg. less than knee-height, less than waist-height etc, and is it short period chop or long period swell?

But if the conditions are like the kind of conditions you see in DJ's videos then I'd have thought the only real decision to make (assuming money is no issue) is whether to get a Bullet V2 SCC with or without rudder. The wood construction SICs are heavy and it affects their performance. Rudders are not common where I live because they don't tend to work so well in very rippy confused short period chop, with weed. But those who paddle in deeper, less tidal Hawaiian waters seem to regard rudders as almost essential.

[covesurfer]

From what I see here, I would be focusing mostly on weight and whether or not she is going to want or need a rudder system. I've owned a DCC B14, with rudder, that was 31lbs out of the box. That board only felt good to me when the wind was cranking. But, when it did nuke, it was a lot of fun. Stable, predictable and fun to surf. In lighter conditions, the board worked fine, it picked up small swell easily and you could keep it going in the groove. But, if your friends were on lighter boards, or, flatter, less surfy, more race oriented boards, you would pay a real price trying to keep up.

I don't consider a rudder an absolute necessity but I've grown to love it and I suppose, rely on it to a great extent. It can really help you link up glides and stay moving. And, it's a great safety back up if you experience wind or current that is fighting your heading. Surprisingly, I like the rudder the most on a good, medium to large sized downwinder. You can just steer back and forth through the waves, keeping the board in the optimum spot and really extending your glides.

Downwinding is a distance activity and fatigue accumulates. Bigger, stronger paddlers can overcome a board's weight penalty more than lighter paddlers with less power on tap.

I'm on the lighter side of the scale at 155 lbs and really appreciate the advantage of a lighter board. Last July, there was a Maliko race, held in huge sea conditions, that was won by Kaeo Abbey on a Bullet 17. SIC loaned me that same board after that race and I weighed it at a whopping 42 lbs. I paddled that board on a single Maliko run and had one of my slowest times ever on it. It was difficult for me to get the board up to the speed of the bumps and I missed a lot of stuff that I would have caught on my 27 lb hollow F16. By the end of the run, I was completely exhausted from trying to accelerate all that mass to get into stuff. But in big conditions, a strong, skilled paddler really made it work. I actually think in really rough water, there is an advantage to the heavier boards because they don't get knocked around as much.

So, the conditions are important. The rougher they are, the more stability you can expect from a heavier board. But, there is a significant price to be paid in lighter and/or smoother ocean conditions. That's where lighter weight shows it's many advantages. Always tradeoffs to consider. Not sure this will help much but it's worth what you paid. 

[blueplanetsurf]

She should consider the 12'6 Bullet as well, that is a fun board as well.  Rudder is nice on the 14's for quick course changes, especially if wind is not straight downwind.  The SCC and DCC construction is noticeably lighter than TWCC if she can afford it.

[Off-Shore]

Thanks, but I was hoping for a bit more information about your DW conditions. How big is the swell, typically, eg. less than knee-height, less than waist-height etc, and is it short period chop or long period swell?

We have two downwind runs, one is almost without swell and in sheltered waters and is from knee to waist height when the wind blows. I generally don't take my F16 on this run and opt for 14' boards. The other is offshore and we can get big swells which a buddy who has paddled M2O and M2M and has paddled here, tells me is as big as it gets there.. These are perfect for the F16.. The thinking is the Bullet 14 would be perfect for both... We also get days when the swell is not directly with the wind or the swell bends around islands, and so this is where a rudder does come in handy..

[Area 10]

We have two downwind runs, one is almost without swell and in sheltered waters and is from knee to waist height when the wind blows. I generally don't take my F16 on this run and opt for 14' boards. The other is offshore and we can get big swells which a buddy who has paddled M2O and M2M and has paddled here, tells me is as big as it gets there.. These are perfect for the F16.. The thinking is the Bullet 14 would be perfect for both... We also get days when the swell is not directly with the wind or the swell bends around islands, and so this is where a rudder does come in handy..

Well in that case the only thing left to decide is which Bullet to get - V1 or V2. Tough call because the V2 sounds best for the first course you describe, and the V1 for the second. They are both current models - the V2 isn't an updated V1, it's a completely different board designed for different conditions. Maybe the V1...?

[Off-Shore]

Well in that case the only thing left to decide is which Bullet to get - V1 or V2. Tough call because the V2 sounds best for the first course you describe, and the V1 for the second. They are both current models - the V2 isn't an updated V1, it's a completely different board designed for different conditions. Maybe the V1...?

Okay, but the V1 here is TWC and as heavy as hell compared to the V2 SCC.. So why not the F14 GC? Is this a big man's board only? Again here are the choices with some updated details...

1. Bullet 14' V2 SCC (28.5 lbs)
2. Bullet 14' V2 SCC/ with A.S.S. (28.8 lbs)
3. Bullet 14 TWC V1 (36 lbs)
4. F14 GC (29.8 lbs)
5. F16 SCC /A.S.S. (31.7 lbs)

[Area 10]

Well in that case the only thing left to decide is which Bullet to get - V1 or V2. Tough call because the V2 sounds best for the first course you describe, and the V1 for the second. They are both current models - the V2 isn't an updated V1, it's a completely different board designed for different conditions. Maybe the V1...?

Okay, but the V1 here is TWC and as heavy as hell compared to the V2 SCC.. So why not the F14 GC? Is this a big man's board only? Again here are the choices with some updated details...

1. Bullet 14' V2 SCC (28.5 lbs)
2. Bullet 14' V2 SCC/ with A.S.S. (28.8 lbs)
3. Bullet 14 TWC V1 (36 lbs)
4. F14 GC (29.8 lbs)
5. F16 SCC /A.S.S. (31.7 lbs)

Ahh...OK, well that changes things a bit. You don't want the TWC V1. It will be very heavy for her. It's for big guys in big conditions who need a tough board. I discounted the F14 because it is probably a bit big and heavy for her. So that leaves you with the choice of a ruddered or non-ruddered Bullet V2. It sounds like you'd be a better judge of that in terms of your conditions. One note of caution: the V2 doesn't have much rocker. I've not had a chance to try mine in big DW conditions yet, but I think you'll need to be pretty quick on your feet to avoid pearling, and this would mean spending a lot of time away from the rudder control, at the back of the board. I've had DW runs where I've spent 75% of the time with my back foot over the fin, so a rudder would have been pretty much redundant - you are steering with the rails not the fin. But as I say, it depends greatly on your local conditions, and it sounds like yours favour a rudder. The V2 is magic in small DW conditions, and is actually probably easier than the V1 then. Swings and roundabouts...

[Off-Shore]

So that leaves you with the choice of a ruddered or non-ruddered Bullet V2. .....The V2 is magic in small DW conditions, and is actually probably easier than the V1 then. Swings and roundabouts...

Thanks Area 10. That's good advice... Just so happens that the V2 with A.S.S is the most expensive one (more than the F16 with A.S.S)... and since I promised her husband I would steer her towards the lower priced ones; it could be that the choice is neither swing nor roundabout, but a slide.. I mean a Naish Glide...

[Off-Shore]

I'm on the lighter side of the scale at 155 lbs and really appreciate the advantage of a lighter board. Last July, there was a Maliko race, held in huge sea conditions, that was won by Kaeo Abbey on a Bullet 17. SIC loaned me that same board after that race and I weighed it at a whopping 42 lbs. I paddled that board on a single Maliko run and had one of my slowest times ever on it. It was difficult for me to get the board up to the speed of the bumps and I missed a lot of stuff that I would have caught on my 27 lb hollow F16. By the end of the run, I was completely exhausted from trying to accelerate all that mass to get into stuff. But in big conditions, a strong, skilled paddler really made it work. I actually think in really rough water, there is an advantage to the heavier boards because they don't get knocked around as much.

Thanks Covesurfer... I know exactly what you mean. I have a friend with a Bullet 17 and we swap around with my F16 (both hollow, made in Maui) and if the wind is marginal the Bullet 17 exhausts me in comparison.. But when the wind gets to 20knots plus, the Bullet 17 works better than the F16..

The weight is my concern for her.. too much weight and she will not have the energy to enjoy longer rides in the lower wind conditions...

[Eagle]

Based on her experience level using the various boards in the conditions you noted - the F14 first choice.  Go only for the 14v2 SCC with steering if balance is a non-issue and they have the $.  For glides the F-14 is hard to fault and is stable.  For acceleration in lighter wind the 14v2 with a narrower body is money.

Each one of the boards you list is excellent and best suited for a slightly different condition.  Bigger steeper drops go for the 14v1 or F16 - overall just choose based on cost and overall end usage.

[blueplanetsurf]

Where are you located?  We have a great deal on 2013 14' Bullets V1 DCC with ASS (same as 2014 just different colors), might be worth checking into.

[Off-Shore]

Where are you located?  We have a great deal on 2013 14' Bullets V1 DCC with ASS (same as 2014 just different colors), might be worth checking into.

Would be interested in your pricing. There is a bunch of folk here in Hong Kong that arrange a container from Hawaii once a year with OCs so I can check when the next one is..