Why You Shouldn’t Burn More Than 4,000 Calories a Week Through Exercise

[sup_surf_giant]

I am in no danger. 

[pdxmike]

I have to disagree with the last few disagreers. 

The auther explains 4 or 5 times how it's not an exact limit, and how a moderate amount of exercise is healthy (and certainly healthier than too little), and how going over 4000 calories is fine if your goal is performance rather than pure health. 

He's not saying nobody should go over than amount, or that you can't be happy or healthy if you do. 

And while it's true most people don't exercise enough, and too many people are fat, it's absolutely true that there are plenty of people around who overdo exercise.  It's so common among runners and triathletes that it's become a cliche--the guy who is training so much that he's constantly getting sick, has chronic injuries, is cranky all the time, has no balance in his life, doesn't have time for his family...And even then that all could be fine if that person would admit that he's doing it for competitive performance instead of health, since he'd obviously be healthier if he cut back.

But if the fact that they'd be healthier if they cut back isn't enough to prove these people are overdoing it, then consider how many of them train to the point that they're also making their athletic performance WORSE.  Overtrainers who can't even convince themselves any longer that they're training for health's sake will tell you they're training for performance, but then choose adding one more workout to their week when the best thing they could do for performance is take a break. 

And the thing that gives special credibility to Mark Sisson is that he was a world class marathoner, so has personal experience with this subject. 

[pdxmike]

Hogwash! You do your thing, and I'll do mine. If 4000 calories is a limit and would cause me harm, then for the last forty years I've blown it. I'm 70 now, and I've been a runner who averaged 106 miles a week for three years(2:30 marathons), bicycle road racer for 27 years (55 min. 40K) and average over 12000 (3 at 18000 miles) miles a year, and a paddler (surfski, kayak, outrigger) that's been averaging 70 miles (at least 2 races a month) a week for the last three years. A normal non-race week with the paddling, spin bike and weight lifting would be a minimum of 8500 calories. Smile. I know it's just me, but I"m not changing.

All that training and performance is truly impressive, but it doesn't disprove the author's point.  Plus, while your training sounds like it works great for you, it also is pretty clear you're in it for the competition/performance as well as health, which he acknowledges is a different goal, and one needing more training than what the average person should be doing for health's sake.  It also is an amount of training and effort that most people couldn't achieve without some real compromises to a balanced life, which was one of his points also.  Maybe you'd have been healthier (albeit slower) with less training, or maybe not, but he's talking about people in general anyway, not every individual.

And the 2:30 marathons are nice, but I ran my first sub-2:30 when I was eighteen, and given that I did it on injured feet, there's a good chance I'd have  gone faster if I'd cut back on training (which was already a lot less training than you did).  Celeste (a girl!) also ran sub-2:30 and sees the author's point.  And the author blows us all away with his 2:16, so again has seen this from the perspective of someone who obviously trained heavily for years. 

[SEA]

Mark Sisson was a world class triathlete who came in 3rd or 4th at the Iron man on the Island of Hawaii. He overtrained for about 20 years. Yes he knows what it's like to be an over achiever and an obsessive exerciser. He said it was killing him he was constantly getting sick and his body was falling apart. 

Mike was spot on , Mark is saying the studies suggest that to much exercise can be and most likely detrimental for MOST not ALL people. There will always be exceptions to the rule for anything but this is a general guideline. If you are training 5 or 6 days a week intensely I would wage to say you are putting a lot of stress on your body.

Mark told a story of when he quit the triathlon circuit as well as training 6 hours a day 6 days a week. He began to eat Paleo and began exercising only a few times a week and playing more for fun , like paddle boarding and playing frisbee football, doing body weight exercises and sprints once a week. He did this for about 5 years and the Triathlon circuit was coming through his town for a race. He entered it without any training just to see how he would do. Well he placed in the top 10. He was able to help other triathletes stop overtraining and change their diets to enable them to continue competing as they got older.

Here is a classic quote from an article on too much exercising causing to much inflammation this is his quote at the end ..... 

"Yeah, exercise is a funny subject. There isn’t really a one-size-fits-all detailed prescription, which is why when I offer my suggestions for exercise on this blog, I try to keep them very general. Rather than prescribe this many sets of these specific lifts for this many reps at this weight, I say “lift heavy things.” That could be bodyweight, sandbags, barbells, kettlebells, or the latest in HIT machine technology. Rather than tell you to jog at this heart rate for this long at this grade this many times a week, I suggest you “move frequently at a slow pace” and “run really fast once in awhile.” You could move slowly or really quickly on your feet on the street, on a trail, on a bike, in a pool, as you garden, or even in place (burpees, anyone?). Sure, I think a day or two of lifting, one session of sprinting, and as much slow movement as you can possibly stand each week are reasonable targets for the general public, but it’s honestly really wide open."

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-relationship-between-exercise-and-inflammation-and-what-it-means-for-your-workouts/#ixzz298mSvtr1

[pdxmike]

SEA--that's something I like most about his advice--it's general, and not absolute.  Even with the 4000-calorie exercise guideline, he's almost apologetic about naming a specific number, and makes an effort to warn that 4000 is not a specific one-size-fits-all limit. 

It reminds me how I've been to a bunch of swim clinics over the years, and it seems like the better the swimmer, the more general and simple the advice.  It's not that the fastest people don't know all the complicated explanations, statistics, etc.--they've grown up hearing it from coaches--it's that they've absorbed all that, tried it all out, kept what worked and rejected the rest, and boiled it down to simple things to keep in mind that really work.  It can sound simplistic compared to the complicated advice, but it's not, and it works better. 

[supthecreek]

SEA
I like your story... good for you.
I... am one of  those frustrating people... just a change in my food choices would do wonders for me.... but it is, sort of a big deal. I was brought up on certain foods and when I "go healthy" for 6 months, all I need to do is slip... once... and the old habits take over.

They are not "bad" eating habits... but I like starches and dairy products and other things that just keep me bigger than I want. I am fairly fit and my family lives to old age. (90's)
 
Typical meals growing up: Considered by the Depression era adults, to be a healthy balanced diet.
Breakfast- Bacon, Eggs, toast with butter, Milk & OJ
Lunch- Crap school carbo fest
Dinner- fruit cup - Meat, Potatoes, gravy, vegetables, bread & butter with milk... then dessert.

I'll tell you this... the grip of "comfort food" is stronger than you may know.
So.... in hindsight...maybe the food was less than ideal...

On the plus side... I deal with life very easily...I suspect because the large family meal around the dinner table, had a very grounding effect.

I never did drugs & I only have 1 drink when I go out. I get a minimum of 2 to 3 hours of surf or paddle at least 5 days a week...

But the food choice thing... it's tough.

I googled the "Paleo Diet Lifestyle" I have read about it before and it fits my common sense approach to the universe. I will give it another look. Who knows... maybe you sparked something in me... but don't hold your breath

I have been reading "Health Gurus" since Adelle Davis 1970's book "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit"... and 30 others since.... net result... I still have the same eating habits.

In a "Paleo esq" way... I am living up to my evolutionary genes "When early humans spread to colder climates, their body shapes evolved in ways that helped them stay warm. Short, wide bodies conserved heat."... probably why I can wear a 3/2 wetsuit surfing NE in February

 pdx ---> "disagree with the last few disagreers." ... my kind of English

[PonoBill]

The 4000 calorie "limit" has a pretty solid background. The studies are worth looking at. It's entirely possible people at reasonable levels of fitness could increase their fitness level and maintain a lower injury rate by paying attention to it. Obviously one size doesn't fit all, but it's a rational guideline.

I'm prepping to give the whole paleo thing another go.

[balance_fit]

...... I sent the link to a friend, marathoner as well, compulsive as hell (so stiff, he can't even balance one one leg to put on his pants, always in pain, etc). Friend replied he needs to train to feel well...
...

Thanks for bringing this article,

May all be well

I know the feeling well....
So I suggest that your friend talking about something deeper then phyical well being.

Thanks for your remarks Celeste.
My friend, for over 40 yrs, asked me to help him train for a marathon some 5 yrs ago. And train we did. He improved all his PRs from the mile, 3, 5, 10, 21 kms but not the marathon. Why? His own compulsiveness to train got in the way of pacing work and he never accomplished his long runs at an easy pace. He dumped me as trainer, got a different one each year and hasn't improved any of his PRs.
Lately, he asked for help, since he was so stiff he couldn't balance to put his pants, no joke. Lasted 3 weeks in the flexibility program, back to his old ways (7,000 cal per wk exercise).
His wife is a PhD in Psychogy.
We're working with his mind.
Beware of the "runner's high"...
Be well

[ny37]

OK guru's, does this sound like too much? I really don't know.

6-8 hrs./week "fun" exercise ( sup surf/ windsurf )

3 hrs./week intense resistance training ( push ups, pull ups, dumbbells ect.)

2 hrs./week stretching/yoga

sometimes I feel worn out, but in a good way.

[Puamana4me]

 600 cal/day + or -  excercising can be bad ?

 Guess I cant have sex with my wife after my morning run today.


 How about an elite marathoner time tested formula ... take a day off from  exercise if your resting heart rate (upon waking) is elevated  > 15%. 

 I guess people are always looking for literature to legitimize what it is they really dont want to do.

Next time I see one of the top 3 from the 2012 BOP running hills in my neighborhood, I'll make sure and tell him to stop at 600 calories.

 

 

 

 

[PonoBill]

Pua, There's lots of caveats in the article, and it's not a limit, it's a guideline, that shifts upward substantially for people who are elite athletes. It makes a lot more sense than it sounds like, especially if you read the supporting docs. Living in Hood River I know a lot of people that may be over-training, They have frequent injuries, and they become overly specialized for the sports they focus on. They don't look or act particularly healthy, and they seem driven by their approach to fitness, which doesn't look like fun to me.

For myself, the key to fitness is going to be diet, not exercise. I do way over 4000 calories per week and probably won't change. I only do things that are fun for me, and I have no intention to have less fun. The article does point me towards more strength training than I currently do, and I'll figure out a way to do a bit more while I'm in Maui. And I may feel a little more free not do that second downwinder when I'm really not that excited about it--unless it's really nukin'.

For a lot of people 4000 calories looks like a HUGE amount of exercise.

[pdxmike]

600 cal/day + or -  excercising can be bad ?

 Guess I cant have sex with my wife after my morning run today.


 How about an elite marathoner time tested formula ... take a day off from  exercise if your resting heart rate (upon waking) is elevated  > 15%. 

 I guess people are always looking for literature to legitimize what it is they really dont want to do.

Next time I see one of the top 3 from the 2012 BOP running hills in my neighborhood, I'll make sure and tell him to stop at 600 calories.

 

Don't worry, according to the article sex wouldn't count towards the 4000 calories (or maybe it would, depending on exertion level).

Elite marathoners probably prove the author's point as well as anyone could.  First, their goal is performance, which he knows is a different goal than health, and requires more training.  But to be an elite marathoner, you have to make running your life.  Even though elite marathoners get paid or subsidized for running, which relieves pressure to have a full-time outside career, they still have to make huge sacrifices in other areas of life to train.  The average person could not manage half their training and still maintain a normal job or family life. 

Plus, if any elite marathoner wanted to be healthier, the first thing they should do is cut back on running, and add training to increase strength, flexibility, etc.  Or even better, just rest and gain some weight. 

Same with your example of the top 3 BOP guys.  Their focus is performance, not health.  And they have made some tremendous sacrifices in regard to life balance in order to be able to compete at that level.  Not that they would want to trade lives with anyone, but again if the person with typical life demands tried to train like they did, the balance in their lives would go out the window.  And, given the stresses to their body of that much training, they'd likely be healthier (but again, maybe not as competitive) cutting back the training to something closer to what the author recommends. 

And the 4000 calorie amount isn't slouchy.  Anyone exercising that much already understands the value of exercise, and isn't the type that's looking for excuses to not exercise.  Certainly lazy types love any article that legitimizes not exercising at all, but the people who are even more resistant to information about exercise are people who are overdoing it--they're the ones who desparately latch onto anything that legitimizes their desire to keep overtraining. 

[Puamana4me]

Ok, thanks PDXmike .

Your level of knowledge of training and guidng elite marathoners and elite paddlers is  expert it seems.


 

[pdxmike]

Ok, thanks PDXmike .

Your level of knowledge of training and guidng elite marathoners and elite paddlers is  expert it seems.


 

Where do you think I said something about training or guiding them?

I didn't say one word about training or guiding elite paddlers, or training marathoners.  The only thing that I said that could remotely be viewed as "guiding" elite marathoners was saying that if they wanted to be healthier, they should replace some running with other things.  I don't think you'd find many elite marathoners who'd disagree with that.  But you will find at least one who strongly AGREES with me--Mark Sisson, the author of the article.  

His message was very simple--that "4,000 calories of focused work per week is the cut off point after which health and happiness begin to suffer for most people".  So your saying that elite BOP racers and marathoners don't follow that limit is irrelevant--everyone already knows that, and the author was careful to explain that that's not what he means.  

[SEA]

Ok, thanks PDXmike .

Your level of knowledge of training and guidng elite marathoners and elite paddlers is  expert it seems.


 

WOW !!! SPECIAL