The presidential political thread

[Weasels wake]

Okay, I'll do it, I know many people here think that politics doesn't deserve a place here, but this is the "Random" thread, which means if you aren't interested, well then you don't have to post here, simple as that.
But the fact remains, this has become a fairly large online community, so it's up to you whether you want to contribute or not.
And you have to admit, this is seriously current.

So I'm going to start off with this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Americans’ Incomes Have Fallen $3,040 During the Obama ‘Recovery’
8:02 AM, Sep 27, 2012 •
By JEFFREY H. ANDERSON

Americans must be wondering how much more of this “recovery” they can afford.  New figures from the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, compiled by Sentier Research, show that the typical American household’s real (inflation-adjusted) income has actually dropped 5.7 percent during the Obama “recovery.”  Using constant 2012 dollars (to adjust for inflation), the median annual income of American households was $53,718 as of June 2009, the last month of the recession.  Now, after 38 months of this “recovery,” it has fallen to $50,678 — a drop of $3,040 per household.

Yet it gets worse.  Amazingly, incomes have dropped even more during the “recovery” than they did during the recession.  In fact, they’ve dropped more than twice as much as they did during the recession.  From the start to the end of the recession, the real median income of American households fell $1,413, or 2.6 percent.  From the end of the recession to the present day, it has dropped $3,040, or 5.7 percent.  This begs the question:  What kind of “recovery” compares unfavorably with the recession from which it’s ostensibly recovering?

Two of the groups hit hardest have been ones that turned out in abundance for Obama in 2008:  black Americans and younger Americans (those between the ages of 25 and 34).  During the first three years of the Obama “recovery,” the real median household income for black Americans dropped a whopping 11.1 percent.  For Americans between the ages of 25 and 34 — the group most apt, as Paul Ryan put it, to be “staring up at fading Obama posters” and looking to “get going with life” — real median household income dropped 8.9 percent.

Moreover, we’re still not headed in the right direction.  Last month, American households’ real median annual income fell by another $543 — from $51,221 to $50,678.  Sentier’s Gordon Green, former chief of the Governments Division at the Census Bureau, says, “This latest decline in real median annual household income is indicative of a struggling economy.”  He adds that, while we are “technically” in a recovery, “real median annual household income is having a difficult time maintaining its present level, much less ‘recovering.’”

Similarly, the percentage of Americans who are employed has dropped during the Obama “recovery” — from 59.4 percent during the final month of the recession to just 58.3 percent last month.  That’s according to the Obama administration’s own figures.  

So, to recap, compared to the last month of the recession (in June 2009), the percentage of Americans who are employed has dropped 1.1 points, and typical Americans’ real annual household income has dropped $3,040.  Who knew how good we had it back in the glory days of the Great Recession?

No wonder Obama says he’s running for reelection because he wants to realize “the future we imagined in 2008.”  He can’t very well run on the reality we’re experiencing in 2012.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/americans-incomes-have-fallen-3040-during-obama-recovery_653116.html

[Weasels wake]

I suppose I should add this, an example of BHO's base and how he gets it.

[808]

This sums it up pretty good.

"How can limited government and fiscal restraint be equated with lack of compassion for the poor? How can a tax break that puts a little more money in the weekly paychecks of working people be seen as an attack on the needy? Since when do we in America believe that our society is made up of two diametrically opposed classes—one rich, one poor—both in a permanent state of conflict and neither able to get ahead except at the expense of the other? Since when do we in America accept this alien and discredited theory of social and class warfare? Since when do we in America endorse the politics of envy and division?” - Ronald Reagan, CPAC, 1982

[supthecreek]

Of course it has it's place here.... and EVERYWHERE!
If we fail to pay attention then we are going to fulfill the prophecy of Alexis de Tocqueville:

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians
realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

And a quote from famous philosopher, supthecreek:
"If America fails... anarchy will envelope the world till the end of humanity"

Not a joke or a hysterical rant... it's a fact, backed by historical proof. The world has always ebbed back and forth, directed by this tough guy or that one. America evolved from an unrepeatable circumstance, and became the stabilizer of the world. If we abdicate our position as World Leader, no other government will ever exist to replace us and the biggest, baddest killers will rule all the masses within their grasp.

There will be no more individual rights, no more private enterprise, no more special interest groups.... no more politically correct anything. All whining liberals promoting their pet cause will be the first to suffer the painful new reality.... they only exist because of a benevolent country run by the people. When the liberals turn over all personal responsibility and rely on the government to provide for them... they prove de tocquevilles theory. Soon we will follow the socialist inevitable downfall....
bread is free... but there is no bread.
Healthcare is free... but there is no healthcare....
on and on until we are broke, powerless and defenseless.

When the bad-asses take over, and they will, light will only shine for the baddest of the bad, and most decent people do not possess that inclination.

Vote Obama out... or the lid on our coffin is closing
He really believes that "America the world leader" is an idea whose time is passed.
He, and ALL liberals, are so naive, that they believe the nice decent people will run the world correctly, then we will live in the peaceful harmony from John Lennons "Imagine".

The nasty little secret is:
Bully's run the schoolyard when unchecked. Nice guys get their ass kicked when there is no strong authority present to protect them.

[PaddleAnything]

Of course it has it's place here.... and EVERYWHERE!
If we fail to pay attention then we are going to fulfill the prophecy of Alexis de Tocqueville:

"The American Republic will endure, until politicians
realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

And a quote from famous philosopher, supthecreek:
"If America fails... anarchy will envelope the world till the end of humanity"

Not a joke or a hysterical rant... it's a fact, backed by historical proof. The world has always ebbed back and forth, directed by this tough guy or that one. America evolved from an unrepeatable circumstance, and became the stabilizer of the world. If we abdicate our position as World Leader, no other government will ever exist to replace us and the biggest, baddest killers will rule all the masses within their grasp.

There will be no more individual rights, no more private enterprise, no more special interest groups.... no more politically correct anything. All whining liberals promoting their pet cause will be the first to suffer the painful new reality.... they only exist because of a benevolent country run by the people. When the liberals turn over all personal responsibility and rely on the government to provide for them... they prove de tocquevilles theory. Soon we will follow the socialist inevitable downfall....
bread is free... but there is no bread.
Healthcare is free... but there is no healthcare....
on and on until we are broke, powerless and defenseless.

When the bad-asses take over, and they will, light will only shine for the baddest of the bad, and most decent people do not possess that inclination.

Vote Obama out... or the lid on our coffin is closing
He really believes that "America the world leader" is an idea whose time is passed.
He, and ALL liberals, are so naive, that they believe the nice decent people will run the world correctly, then we will live in the peaceful harmony from John Lennons "Imagine".

The nasty little secret is:
Bully's run the schoolyard when unchecked. Nice guys get their ass kicked when there is no strong authority present to protect them.

So, what is in that creek you've been supping?   

[feet]

I guess it was just a matter of time before this forum delved into national politics...

I was hopeful that this was a spin free, politics free zone...

But that isn't the case any longer.

Sure, it was correctly put in the random category, but I always click on "recent topics" as a way to see the newest posts, regardless of which section they are in.

I read an awful lot - the NY Times AND Wall St. Journal, so don't think I'm not well-informed. Quite simply, I lament the disappearance of my last refuge from the sh1tstorm. 

[Admin]

"How can limited government and fiscal restraint be equated with lack of compassion for the poor?

How can limited government and fiscal restraint be equated with the Republican Party?

He, and ALL liberals, are so naive, that they believe the nice decent people will run the world correctly, then we will live in the peaceful harmony from John Lennons "Imagine".

I wanted to type a rebuttal but my hippie-socialist hands were too busy snapping in approval at your mention of John Lennon.

[spookini]

Ok, I'll wade in (or as feet put it, enter the "sh1tstorm"   )

Rick, can we assume you are a classical libertarian? -- gov't.'s role is to get out of the way and allow society/enterprise to self-regulate...
But, you sort of kill your own hypothesis at the end of your post:

Bully's run the schoolyard when unchecked. Nice guys get their ass kicked when there is no strong authority present to protect them.

Teddy Kennedy could not have said it any better!!  

(Ok, gotta wade out and disinfect my flipflops now..)

[Admin]

Soon we will follow the socialist inevitable downfall....

We regularly pay debt service on 2 trillion dollars to "socialist" China, who we also thought it wise to hand off our manufacturing to (when we realized that Americans were better suited for intellectual work than building things).

You really have to love the backtracking on this issue in this election.  Both parties are so pro-manufacturing this year

"We are moving towards a knowledge and service economy" - Larry Summers

[Tom]

Democalypse 2012 - Every Which Way But Lucid
Barack Obama is the luckiest dude on the planet because the guy he's running against appears to be getting dumber the closer it gets to the election.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-25-2012/democalypse-2012---every-which-way-but-lucid?xrs=share_copy

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-25-2012/democalypse-2012---every-which-way-but-lucid

[endlessfight]

as a Canadian, whose politics are unfortunately more controlled by the US government then our own, please do not mess this up America. Our horrid conservative government is putty in your hands. We can't seem to make our own decisions unless it's cool with you guys first. And if we do make a change you don’t agree with, you step in, and we change it. Every. Single. time. Therefore, i am always paying close attention to every election and was really following the republican bid for instance. If you take a stance against something, then the Canadian government does too. We stood against Cuba at the Summet of Americas just because you guys did. We have never had issues with Cuba and is the #1 vacation destination for Canadians. It’s disgusting really. So the results of this election is super important to Canadians as well.
IMO neither romney or obama are good for your country, or your image to the rest of the world. One is def better then the other, but sorry to say it you’re screwed either way. It will be more of the same. The last thing you, or the world needs right now is another war.

that being said i really dont think romney has a hope in hell of winning this election. the republican choices this year were horrid. gaffe after gaffe after gaffe

Here’s a funny image I saw this morning.

[SoCalSupper]

cant stand politics-its an irreparable cluster you know what-both parties are too infected with $ and the lust for power.
Only reason i vote Repub is because they align more closely with my spiritual beliefs, but that gap has widened also.
Just back from the Big Apple-cool town-lots of energy-lots of smoking-saw several people almost get flattened by tourist buses whilst on their electronic devices of every nature-i realize Manhattan is just one slice of the NY Pie but truly it is a trippy spot.
Going surfing today-hope i see some zoners-i dont even watch the news anymore-mainly ESPN and some cool Discovery channel or nature shows-political channels make my blood pressure rise.

Hey Endless-just read the book-ARGO-new movie out soon based on the book-good read-Canadia and the US holding hands and working together to rescue some hostages because Carter didnt think it through, its a good if mild read,anyway IMHO Obozo wins the election, 4 more years, sigh....

[endlessfight]

socal, i saw an article on that recently - really interested to check out the movie.
i just really wish that if we were such good pals they could do away with sticking all that duty on me when i order packages from the US hehe

good luck guys. gonna be an interesting next few months.

[supthecreek]

This is fun
and regrettable at the same time

Spookini...
My "school yard bully" comment supports a strong America... maintaining its powerful influence on the world.
In my view, a strong America is the primary responsibility of our government. It is necessary to protect our lives and property.
A strong America should be a given regardless of what political party is in power.

I do hold strong beliefs in the American Political System.
I also believe that incredible minds used their considerable intellectual and moral resources combined with a selfless concern for the future of America, to create a political system that would safeguard their new nation.

They disagreed how this could be done.
That disagreement evolved into basically, a two party system.
One that supports strong federal government
One that believes in limited federal government, with more power given to state and locally elected government.
They both pretty much suck... but here's my solace:

I have never seen it written... but I firmly believe, that Thomas Jefferson and John Adams:
 1- Began, of course, as brothers of the Revolution
 2- Became bitter opponents in their political theories through out their public lives.
 3- Developed a strong bond late in life when they came to the same realization:
     The true genius of the American political system was not the correctness of one side or the other... but a balance created by the two sides constantly tugging back and forth.
The pendulum swings to the right until the weight of it brings it back to the left. Constantly passing through the proper balance, but when either side dominates too long, a correction is necessary.

We are well on our way to giving TOO much power to the government. Time for the pendulum to swing back towards the right.

My main concern is not financial.
It's the erosion of personal freedom and responsibility , the escalating reliance on government and the Very scary trend of abdicating American might and influence around the world.
 
I believe that President Obama frames his policy based on a myopic understanding of American and World History, viewed only through the lens of his own lifetime.

I'm just a 60's hippy surfer dude... but.... hey, wait... there are bullies in the lineup
Why can't everyone just get along?

Because it just doesn't happen that way

[SlatchJim]

While in my head I perceive myself to be a model of harmony, middle of the road consensus views, and logical thought, I realize more and more that I may be a very fringe thinker. No candidate holds my views.  No candidate would do things as radically as I would.  No candidate is willing to take a sword to the budget and not a butter knife.  No candidate would pursue energy independence as if it were the only winnable war against the funding of Radical Islamist Governments.  No candidate would be willing to tie the noose and hang as many people for serious violent and unredeemable and crimes as I would. 

No candidate is me.  ...and I wouldn't last ten minutes in office.

I'm sorry guys, I can't get all that enthusiastic over either of these two compromises.