Yet another (racing) paddle length question...

[ODJ]

I have been riding an SUP in the surf for the last 2 years, and have my paddle length for that dialed. I am 6'2, and seemed to have found the sweet spot for my Methane at between 79-80 inches, so this isn't an issue. but...

I am having trouble figuring out where to start with my race paddle. I am new to race/open-ocean paddling, Recently picked up a Ke'Nalu paddle, and luckily I have the adjustable Ergo-T handle, so i have a pretty large window here for adjustability (Great, design, Bill!).

The Problem is, from what I have read most recommend an average length for a racing paddle to be around 12 inches overhead, but then if you read other literature, and watch videos (in particular this one from Dave Kalama) He mentions that the ideal length is 8-12 inches overhead, possibly an added 2 inches for racing due to the thickness of the board...but 12 inches over my head is 86 inches, but if i add an extra 2 inches overhead that's 88 inches, but if i use the 'reach up and rest your hand over the top of the paddle it ends up being 90 inches...to confuse things even more my board has a 2.5 inch sunken deck on it...and routinely get left shoulder pain with longer paddles, but also have back issues (double discectomy and double hemilaminectony 3 years ago and i am only 35 years old).

maybe it's just a process or trial and error and taking the hairdryer with me to the harbor and dialing in the paddle. While I was waiting for the Ke Nalu to arrive I went out on the board once with my surf paddle and it just sucked donkey balls. Obviously it was waaay to short and put strain on my back.

[PonoBill]

Different paddles are going to need slightly different length because of the way they enter the water and how they catch. Normally I'd have a pretty strong opinion about where you should start, but I've been fiddling a lot myself, and I've gotten myself thoroughly confused. Fortunately you have the right tools. Start with the paddle a little too long, if that's 90 inches then fine, start there. Paddle enough to warm up and then go at it a little while. Use the best technique you can (review Dave's Tahitian paddle stroke posts) and see how it feels. You will probably find that length clumsy and hard to retrieve and recover. If that's the case take off an inch at a time until you feel comfortable. That probably still wont be optimal.

Do some paddling in smooth water at then length. If your shoulders don't bother you then you may be there, if they do then you might need to shorten a bit more.

Then get into some sloppy conditions and try to maintain a good stroke. If your paddle is too short this will show up in how you have to lean over too far when bracing, or can't get your reach out very far.

The ideal length is where you can extend yourself at the maximum reach and get the paddle fully into the water without leaning over too much. With your back issues that "leaning over too much" part is critical. Your paddle is perfect for the board you're on when you are leaned forward slightly at maximum reach, the blade is completely under water and your upper arm is parallel to the surface.

Go fiddle, and have fun. When you get the right spot it's really magic, but it takes some time and patience to find it. But don't make the mistake I made and start fiddling with your surf length at the same time. One at a time.

[DavidJohn]

For me.. it's 12" overhead for flat water.. 8" over for the surf.. and right in the middle of the two is what I use for racing.. (10" over).

DJ

[ODJ]

thanks for the guidance, BIll! No need to mess with my surf paddle. I have that dialed and love it. It's the pesky race paddle length that is the issue for the moment!

[ODJ]

For me.. it's 12" overhead for flat water.. 8" over for the surf.. and right in the middle of the two is what I use for racing.. (10" over).

DJ

dammit! see, this is what makes it confusing!!!  i can already tell that having it 16" overhead will probably cause some shoulder issues and be a bit cumbersome with switching sides. haven't paddled it yet, but i can just tell when i go through it in my mind.

[PonoBill]

The problem with assumptions of how many inches overhead a paddle should be is that it ignores different arm lengths and board thickness. For myself it seems to be important to get my upper arm someplace close to parallel with the water when I start to apply power. That keeps my shoulders from fatiguing. Ke Nalu paddles have very little offset at the tip, so they go into the water very easily, almost sucking down into the water--you'll see what I mean by that when you try yours. That's a good thing, it means you can carry a little more length because the offset doesn't push the paddle away from you as it penetrates, stressing your shoulder length. But if you go for maximum length be sure to relax your lower hand and let the paddle track. Any torque you apply with a lot of shaft length will make the paddle feel like it's wobbling because it will try to track straight while you're trying to twist it. If you feel a wobble, relax your lower hand.

[surf monkey]

For me.. it's 12" overhead for flat water.. 8" over for the surf.. and right in the middle of the two is what I use for racing.. (10" over).

DJ

dammit! see, this is what makes it confusing!!!  i can already tell that having it 16" overhead will probably cause some shoulder issues and be a bit cumbersome with switching sides. haven't paddled it yet, but i can just tell when i go through it in my mind.

Listen to your body when paddling,

I try to paddle every day surf or flat water, just addicted, I broke my surf paddle then started using my race paddle it's 12' overhead for everything it's a smaller blade lighter paddle felt good except for the switching back and fourth a little long I got use to it and I started using the extra length to kinda get more leverage to get in waves. I have never had any arm problems. Then one glassy sunny day, tiny surf stayed out riding little waves for two hours really having fun had to almost paddle over the back of waves to catch the Lil buggers a good time. Afterwards my forearm was a little sore didn't care did the same thing the next day. Well after that it went down hill it hurt to do the everyday stuff, hold a cup of coffee, shaking someones hand killed me. Three months later I'm still nursing it, having to not paddle every day, I can't help myself on days of good surf which has slowed the healing. Originally i thought i paddle every day no big deal. So be careful with the extra lengths.

Good Luck

[westbeach]

Don't take things so literally, these are guidelines. See what works for you personally; you won't know till you try a length and then adjust till it fits you. My flatwater board has thick rails 7", I can't stand on the ground and measure my racing paddle length without accounting for my rail thickness. Or I will be hunching over while getting most of my blade in the water.

For me.. it's 12" overhead for flat water.. 8" over for the surf.. and right in the middle of the two is what I use for racing.. (10" over).

DJ

dammit! see, this is what makes it confusing!!!  i can already tell that having it 16" overhead will probably cause some shoulder issues and be a bit cumbersome with switching sides. haven't paddled it yet, but i can just tell when i go through it in my mind.

[cape kook]

So, in the video where Kalama says 12", I swear his paddle is 14 to 15" over his head.

unless he has a shrunken head.

At 6'4", plus 10" is 86", which is what I have now.

If I do what dave says, and "comfortably reach to get my palm on the paddle"  That puts me at 89 or 90", which is plus 13 to 14"

Have a Ke Nalu on order, might play with it at 88" and see what happens
Maybe my reach will get better!

[XLR8]

I did the comfortably reach up.and put my palm on the paddle grip and wound up with an 86+" paddle and used it all last race season thinking I liked it.

The other day I tried my 82" surf paddle and really liked it.  Felt like switching to.a higher gear.  My new race board will have a sunken deck, so I am planning on dialing in that 86" to around 83ish.  We'll see...

[PonoBill]

It's a worthwhile experiment to try going several inches shorter (if you have the extended handle) to see what happens. Don't just paddle for five minutes and say "nah". Give it an hour and see how you feel. It's really good to do some timed runs. This is kind of sacrilege, but I think if you are just as fast (with good technique) with a shorter paddle, then as long as you are getting the paddle all the way in the water at your best reach, then you're pretty close. Don't try to do this in small increments, you won't see a difference. You need a big jump, like two inches. 

I noticed during the race on Saturday that towards the end when I was tired (8 miles) my paddle wasn't getting all the way into the water. I might have to add an inch for those times when I'm not 100 percent. But my shoulders and arms feel great today--or at least as good as they ever feel.

[adios pantalones]

I've gotten progressivly longer over the years and am at 14" over with a Spanker. Your build makes a difference, I'm 5'10" but long torsoed and armed.

Get the paddle worked out, but what really helped me the most with fatigue and strain issues is getting my stroke technique dialed. Get a coach or try a KalamaKamp.
It will change your game.

[PonoBill]

What I'm getting at is this, I think a lot of folks think if long is good, longer should be better--after all, it will increase your reach. As long as you can clear the water on the recovery stroke, you're OK.

That might be true for some folks with good joints. But if you gain reach by having a longer shaft, it will be reach gained with the paddle angled more forward. Which means your upper arm will be retracted some to get the blade out there. I think that's a weak position for your upper arm and the angled blade doesn't catch very efficiently.

I don't know enough about physiology to say for sure, but I think a position with shoulders stacked, both arms fully extended, and your torso opened to gain reach is a particularly strong position, and having the upper arm parallel to the board seems much stronger and more stable than having it angled upward.

If you get into this position and your blade is full submerged at maximum reach, with the blade under the board and the neck next to the rail, then your length is just right.

I see a lot of people with what seems to me to be a too-long paddle, with their upper arm raised perhaps as much as a 30 degree angle above their shoulder. They seem to struggle to lift the blade sufficiently, often resorting to dropping their upper arm in a semi-Hawaiian stroke. It just doesn't look strong and it looks like it wastes energy.

[juandoe]

I think the key is to avoid hyperextending at the shoulder.  Keeping the arm in line with the torso seems reasonable (assuming no shoulder problems).  Here is an old post with some links to pics.

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=10141.msg89397#msg89397

Another factor that is not mentioned is the angle of the elbow.  If you are winging your elbow out while applying power, that is gonna strain the hell out of your shoulder.  Keeping the elbow in line with the paddle shaft is a lot easier on the shoulder, a la the Connor Baxter stroke.  During the quiksilver paddle festival, I was watching Slater Trout and he was doing the Baxter stroke while paddling on the Right but going normal on the left.  I wondered if he had a Left shoulder injury.