The Space Pickle from Slingshot SUP

[Strand Leper]

But my fins are placed all throughout the board...  based on an algorithm developed with the input of Steven Hawking and George Greenough... now THAT was a b*tch of a shaping meeting!

[pdxmike]

I know nothing about surf shapes, but do care about people knocking off or profiting from other people's ideas.  It IS a big deal.

Obviously innovation would be killed if people could copyright or patent every little idea or innovation. But it also gets killed if people can't profit off true innovations because someone else swoops in and knocks off their product before they have a chance to make a buck off it themselves.  

Everyone loses when companies have to even consider restricting what they put on their websites because of worries over knockoffs.  Larry Allison has mentioned this with his fins.  Starboard for all their great products lost some credibility to me with their photoshopping of Jimmy Lewis's board, and especially their no-big-deal response.  

Wardog gained credibility to me showing how it's not just that the other board looks similar, it's that the sales pitch sounds like it was taken off his own posts.  

And regardless, I appreciate when anyone who is making standup products--him, Larry Allison, and a few others--enter the fray of the forum and discuss this stuff.  It takes some guts to do it.  I learn a lot from it.  

[SUP Sports ®]

But my fins are placed all throughout the board...  based on an algorithm developed with the input of Steven Hawking and George Greenough... now THAT was a b*tch of a shaping meeting!

Bruce Fowler and Bob Krause (RIP) had the 8 fin and more...

It used to drive my wifey nuts when George and I would talk about fin design late into the evening...;-)

One of the highlights of my surfing life was having George in our home projecting his 35mm dolphin surfing films...with Pink Floyd master CD's blaring from our sound system and hundreds of friends in attendance...

http://surfingsports.com/george_greenough.asp

Also, surfing with him at midnight on a full moon at Rincon with a fluorescent algae bloom raging and Pittosporum and orange blossoms going off...

[Strand Leper]

War,

I was hoping to tee that one up nicely for you...

Be well... love your stoke!

Tim

[SUP Sports ®]

I'm so hesitant to post on this because WD is a good friend of mine, and I completely agree with what he is saying.  But it keeps going back to that old discussion about shaping rights, it's a "discussion" that goes back to the late 50's at least.  Everyone, in the shaping world, swipes from everyone else as far back as shaping boards became a recognized artform, and yes, it's an artform.
Okay, I've set my foundation for where I'm coming from, you know I love ya WD, you've got a great argument, but history is working against you.
Now,
as I look at that board, I see 2 ripoffs, one, the tail of the Jammer, no doubt, and two, the nose of the Starboard Rush, or the Hero.  So Warren you've got a solid claim to 50% of the design of that board,,,,, IMO.
But this will just have to go down in the history of board shaping as just another example of not being able to control any of the shapes out there.
Eeeh, it is what it is.

Peace bro.

Aloha Greg...
I totally agree 1000%...ripoff is a fact of surfing...but, that doesn't make it right...you know me...

Pretty blatant example here...obviously, the tail is more important to me than the nose...but, I thought the same thing about the nose...;-)

A wink and a nod would go a long way...;-)

[SUP Sports ®]

I know nothing about surf shapes, but do care about people knocking off or profiting from other people's ideas.  It IS a big deal.

Obviously innovation would be killed if people could copyright or patent every little idea or innovation. But it also gets killed if people can't profit off true innovations because someone else swoops in and knocks off their product before they have a chance to make a buck off it themselves.  

Everyone loses when companies have to even consider restricting what they put on their websites because of worries over knockoffs.  Larry Allison has mentioned this with his fins.  Starboard for all their great products lost some credibility to me with their photoshopping of Jimmy Lewis's board, and especially their no-big-deal response.  

Wardog gained credibility to me showing how it's not just that the other board looks similar, it's that the sales pitch sounds like it was taken off his own posts.  

And regardless, I appreciate when anyone who is making standup products--him, Larry Allison, and a few others--enter the fray of the forum and discuss this stuff.  It takes some guts to do it.  I learn a lot from it.  

Gracias pdxmike,
IMO, you got it right...refreshing to have an objective opinion go through the evidence...you must have a *real* computer where you can click on hyperlinks...and, not just an iPhone app...;-)

I stopped blogging and restricted website content for almost a year because I got tired of getting bent over by ripoff artists trying to take shortcuts and claiming it for themselves...but, we have way too many supporters that encourage us to keep driving the bus and not look in the rear view mirror...so, that is the path that we have chosen...for now, anyways...

IMO, I made the case beyond a reasonable doubt...the facts are there, counselor...now, it's up to the jury...;-)

Either way...we're marching ahead...always trying to stay one step ahead of the b*stards...

Thanks for your support...

[southwesterly]

Well played by all parties involved.

Almost everything has been done before
but every now and then a new innovation
comes along that is truly ground breaking.

[dakine1214]

my only problem i see hear is War using the opening phrase of ALOHA!! I live on the islands and for one am sick of the word thrown aroung like a plastic lei, umbrella in the drink and total disregard of the word. Think twice b4 u use the word PLEASE!! If you know of any thing of the culture here it is to be used as the highest effection of deep love. Which it is not being used for here. For now on just use the word howdy of dear anything than that.
Malama Pono
JOhn

[OC kbar]

my only problem i see hear is War using the opening phrase of ALOHA!! I live on the islands and for one am sick of the word thrown aroung like a plastic lei, umbrella in the drink and total disregard of the word. Think twice b4 u use the word PLEASE!! If you know of any thing of the culture here it is to be used as the highest effection of deep love. Which it is not being used for here. For now on just use the word howdy of dear anything than that.
Malama Pono
JOhn

Mahalo 

[SUP Sports ®]

Well played by all parties involved.

Almost everything has been done before
but every now and then a new innovation
comes along that is truly ground breaking.

Hola Steve,
Ooops! I hope that's an approved greeting...;-)

Speaking of marketing and innovation...it looks like Slingshot is hoping to sell a gaggle of Space Pickles...
I see they took out a $3000 full page ad buy (at least that's what it was the last time we advertised...;-) in your buddy Clay's mag...prolly a few of the others...

The theme is "YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT"...

hmmmmm...I guess the genie is out of the bottle on this out of the box design...;-)

[Boludo]

[/quote]

The theme is "YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT"...

hmmmmm...I guess the genie is out of the bottle on this out of the box design...;-)

[/quote]

It's just marketing.  Almost every company does it with a slogan or catch phrase.  I bought some Celsium (tea) from Costco and it says "Tastes Great!"  Yeah right! Tastes horrible.  My little girls shampoo says "Tear Free" but she will disagree to that.
Anyways, the way I see it is that the tail may look somewhat like the Jammer but there's enough changes in it to not be a copy.  Most boards have similarities to or from other boards.  SUP started with one board and has evolved and will continue to evolve.  Whether you are the first to do a wide tail doesn't give you the entitlement to claim a wide tail on a SUP.  I know there is more to it but I welcome companies as it offers more ideas and competition.  Maybe I'm missing a lot more to the story as I also don't like Copy Cats but the difference is Copy Cat Vs. using certain ideas and shapes and incorporating it into your own. 
If I have my shaper do a wider tail on my next board, I will be sure to put in writing on my SUP - Wide Tail originated from WarDog to eliminate in problems that may arise.

[dakine1214]

Funny thing is I saw some boards I was going to inquire about at Surfing Sports and show some SUP friends of mine if and when I got them but now I am so turned off that I will not be buying there. When I see little tit for tat on "Double Leash Plug" that was another one where alls I can do is roll my eyes. I went to my kids open house at his pre-school and there was a kid that kept saying "It was my idea to use the color pink for the week" It kinda reminded me of something Also I know WAR (oops i dont think were that close so I will say Wardog if thats o.k) you do not take my comment of not using the word Aloha seriously and wink as a joke. Someday look up the word Aloha and where it came from. The Hawaiian culture is deep and that is one of the main reasons for stink eye is the lack of respect from the mainland.

[dakine1214]

In a nutshell what burns me up. Is war wants the recognition and respect for his designs. But when I bring up a word that is very sacred ,deep in meaning, not to be said or takin lightly it was passed off with a wink and a joke with no respect. To get respect is to give it. Whats really more important Aloha or a pickle.

[pdxmike]

Nevertheless, he instantly stopped using "aloha" as soon as you pointed it out.  The joke and wink was to show that his switching to another greeting wasn't accidental, but was in response to your comment.  Maybe it's not a perfect response to you, but certainly better than what you'd get from a million other people who use "aloha" with no understanding of its original meaning and importance every day. 

[SUP Sports ®]

In a nutshell what burns me up. Is war wants the recognition and respect for his designs. But when I bring up a word that is very sacred ,deep in meaning, not to be said or takin lightly it was passed off with a wink and a joke with no respect. To get respect is to give it. Whats really more important Aloha or a pickle.

People that know me, know that respect is a big word in my vocabulary...it motivated me to post in the first place...

As far as the word "Aloha" being very sacred to you...sorry bro...never meant any disrespect to you by using the word "Aloha" as a greeting...there are millions of people that use it daily in that context...me included...I also know it's deeper meaning...but, I doubt that we are going to be able to fix deeply ingrained linguistic and cultural issues in the context of this thread...but, I certainly can tell you that Aloha is much more important than pickles...;-)

Sorry if the winky offends you...it's a habit of mine to use emoticons to lighten up online writings...I've used them in 1000's of posts dating from the 90's...