Messages

61

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 19, 2019, 07:54:13 AM »

Problem solved for Bryce. Also come in a hollow construction with checker stripe.

(where's the 'like' button !)

62

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 19, 2019, 02:43:25 AM »

1) You can do everything on an UL that you can do on a 12-6. It’s just that almost no-one is building UL boards that are intended to be able to do that. But it can, and in time will, be done.

2) You’d be much keener to continue SUP racing if you had an UL.

3) Just go along and beat everyone. Who cares if you are DQ’ed?

1) As I say, the race formats of inflatable one design suits the smallest practical board, not UL's. Could you - yes, should you, no - it doesn't make any sense as the only advantage is speed - which is irrelevant or relative when everyone is on the same board anyway.

2) No, I really wouldn't. It's not the equipment that is an issue for me, its the sport itself (and wanting to scratch a 20 year itch before my balance goes completely or I'm too old).

3) Well, I would ! There's no point being a lone wolf when you've got nobody to race on a level playing field. If I were just touring or training though, I can see the attraction. I can guarantee that nobody would follow. I've got more chance of people following me back to racing inflatables.

63

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 19, 2019, 02:01:04 AM »

1) Anything that encourages the use of Unlimited class boards is a good thing IMO.

2) ukgm has always taken a position of no hope for himself in regard to board classes.

3) A big unit like him would be far less disadvantaged if all races had UL classes, yet he was unwilling to race them. So now he’s not racing at all. I’m sure it makes sense to him

4) It could probably start in Europe with UL inflatables. Once inflatables exist that are faster and more fun to paddle than the (14ft) hard boards on sale, things will change rapidly.

5) If I was Naish or Starboard I’d promote a one-design series of races using an UL inflatable rather than the Naish 12-6. A 12-6 is always going to be behind the hard boards. But a good UL inflatable could take line honours at every race. And then everyone would want one.

1) Agreed.

2) With SUP being my second sport, I would be more competitive first if i just paddled more than I do. No board size is going to make up for the fact that I only paddle 4 hours a week and even then its typically as a rest day from my cycling. Training load and specificity trumps equipment choice. Even if I'd won more than I had, I'd still be winding it down. It's just run its course for me.

3) Unwilling as in only one race in the UK accepts them. We've discussed this before and me racing on a UL serves no purpose when a. it would take years to convince others to do the same (particularly when you acknowledge the stats of the Dart race you raised) and b. if i take 2) into account. Either way, my shift away from SUP racing has nothing to do with my lack of competitiveness and is everything to do with that surfsking is more fun and with higher speeds. It's more akin to my cycling in terms of what draws me in.

4) Possibly. I had a good look at the starboard Allstar UL last year and that was a fun looking board.

5) In my view, inflatable one-design racing is fine as it is. For example, the N1sco tight courses and formats that prove so popular with paddlers of all levels, just don't suit UL boards.

64

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 18, 2019, 05:31:25 AM »

Inflatables getting cheaper; hard boards getting more expensive; inflatables outnumbering hard boards in races. Hmm...

I've just sold all of my boards, ordered a new ski and ordered an inflatable starboard Allstar so I can race the odd event in the inflatable class if I feel the urge. 

The key thing about that Dart statistic isn't that there are more inflatable than hard though - it's not the technology we should be focused on. When you look at the trends, its more interesting to note that hardboard open class has grown by a considerably smaller rate than the 'challenge/leisure' class (which is mainly made up of inflatables). At that race in particular, it's because for every new paddler the hardboard class attracts, the class loses some of its more longstanding paddlers who are bored or want something else. Most of the regular top 10 paddlers from the last 4-5 years still paddle SUP but don't travel to races any more.

Hmm... the majority of people want cheap, hassle-free fun, and care less about winning than the overall experience. Who’d have thunk it?

It's merely another example of the parkrun/sportif participation ongoing phenomenon. i.e. people wanting a shared social experience, not a hardcore competitive event that merely exposes everyone's shortcomings (be it physical, financial, technical, etc).

65

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 18, 2019, 01:25:55 AM »

With the above factors (as well as others in mind) it would seem logical that the SUP market would be seeing more Hollow UL boards sometime rather soon! After all, it would cater to heavier paddlers in a very nice way.

I don't see how. UL boards can't be raced in most events, downwinding is highly specialised arm of the market and hollow boards from the established brands would likely be ludicrously expensive. There is no market there. Hell, you'll be more likely to see an inflatable UL DW board first. Heavier recreational paddlers will be fine in the leisure class as things stand so much won't change there. Heavier elite paddlers will just be naturally selected out of the competitive sport though.

66

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 18, 2019, 12:52:43 AM »

Inflatables getting cheaper; hard boards getting more expensive; inflatables outnumbering hard boards in races. Hmm...

I've just sold all of my boards, ordered a new ski and ordered an inflatable starboard Allstar so I can race the odd event in the inflatable class if I feel the urge. 

The key thing about that Dart statistic isn't that there are more inflatable than hard though - it's not the technology we should be focused on. When you look at the trends, its more interesting to note that hardboard open class has grown by a considerably smaller rate than the 'challenge/leisure' class (which is mainly made up of inflatables). At that race in particular, it's because for every new paddler the hardboard class attracts, the class loses some of its more longstanding paddlers who are bored or want something else. Most of the regular top 10 paddlers from the last 4-5 years still paddle SUP but don't travel to races any more.

67

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 18, 2019, 12:47:06 AM »

Now if they go to inflatable only then....

Given they have done a lot of press recently regarding their new Maliko inflatable, I think they are waking up to where the recreational market is heading. I nearly bought one but the colourway was awful. Who the hell uses grey.............

68

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 18, 2019, 12:45:22 AM »

...lots of people would find a rather gunny low-volume 12ft do-everything-but-especially surf board appealing right now...

Unfortunately, it seems Naish will follow pack and introduce a dugout for the next season.

How do you figure that ? My understanding is that are reducing or pulling out of the more niche aspects of the sport. If they aren't willing to even maintain their flatwater board range from an existing blank design, they are not going to create a new board for a market that is as small (if not smaller) surely ?

69

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 15, 2019, 09:46:07 AM »

Well Bruno won his first race on the board (in Israel). Soft opposition for him but at least he’s come out swinging.

70

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 12, 2019, 03:38:55 PM »

ukgm - that slip of a lad beat you in strength tests???! How on earth will you live that down. Those guns of yours are all for show not go, eh?

Being 6ft 3, I got stuffed by him in the max press-ups, wide grip pull up's and the sit up's (long levers don't do well in those). Mind you, I held my own in the squat tests and put him to the sword completely in the cycle-based V02 max ramp test (since i'd finished to him 2nd all night long I didn't have the heart to tell him that cycling was my first sport  ).

Z and I will both be borrowing Lightsignatures for the upcoming national sprint champs. I'm still injured so having to rely on surf ski paddling for it but I've got him down for a medal as a minimum.

71

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 12, 2019, 02:14:30 PM »

BTW: I contacted the author of the two videos on FB and asked him about his take on the various boards from a chop and downwind point of view. I believe that he has paddled the Maliko and the Sidewinder before so it might be a useful input.

He said that he is still testing the board in different conditions but cannot yet share his impression with the public.
He also confirmed that he is a SUP racer so it should clarify that he is a very good paddler at a minimum and an experienced open ocean or down-winder likely. Just going for a high wind 19 km down-wind on your own should prove that he is confident in his abilities. Arguably even more so with a new board that is an unknown quantity. So we might have soon comments from a fourth user with a range from 130 lbs (springy Ludovic) to 210 lbs (trimmed UGKM) :-)

Yep Z is a good person to talk to. He's done a stint on pretty much every major brands race team going. He also gave me a good thrashing on recent lab strength tests as we were both subjects in a study (although I got my revenge on the vo2 max ramp test  )

72

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 12, 2019, 12:56:02 PM »

3) A < 10 kph average speed on a downwinder is pretty lame, suggesting an inexperienced rider, a weak effort, or poor conditions / equipment.

Not necessarily - your suggested reasons are negative or derogatory. You’d need some context of the session. It may not have been a constant effort, there may have been some breaks, etc. In the case of the video, it should be acknowledged that the paddler is an ex C1 national squad member and his max speed in that video was 23.3. I’d suggest that both pieces of information infer that he is of a decent standard.

73

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 12, 2019, 12:20:15 AM »

Nighter Luc nor A10 seemed too impressed, they were just nice about it, so I'm not sure it's just me.

Well to be honest, I'm not sure what board everyone is judging it against. The comparisons up to this point would seem to be apples to oranges. Personally, I'd test the signature against a starboard sprint or mistral vortex and the GT against an allstar. They are fair comparisons. If you're going to compare to something like an Ace for example, that's out of its intended scope and its no wonder you're not happy. Both Luc and A10 are experienced offshore paddlers and like getting out there is some decent size swell. This board can in skilled hands but isn't really meant for that. The GT may well suit them better..... if its made a little wider.

I probably should clarify some things at this point:

- I offered links of videos showing the signature going downwind as a means of illustrating that the balance likely isn't the complete nightmare that several paddlers say it is (having never paddled it). I did not wish to suggest the board is downwind raceable - it isn't and it isn't intended that way.

- I think its fair to say that the number of paddlers who have actually paddled it (and therefore have any credibility to comment on it) number only a couple here. The number of videos of the board in action number very few too. I personally wouldn't go making any conclusions based on either of these facts no matter how many people read this thread.

- Reading the advert for the Signature it says: "designed for experience paddlers", "canoe style convex hull design". That tells you that the board may well be beyond your skill level when compared to equivalently sized boards. It doesn't say it may be too much for you though. But you have to try. In about 3 weeks time, I'll be the only person in my country to have tried both boards in their range and I'll let you know what I think. I suspect one I'd buy the other I wouldn't.

- Finally, (and I want to add this to clarify my own position), I have no affiliations to the brand or the boards. I'm not on their team. I'm supportive of the boards as I understand what they are trying to do - even if much of their current range is likely beyond my skill ability.

74

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 11, 2019, 02:49:12 PM »

Just as an aside, one of my paddling buddies has been borrowing the 24.75 Signature. He's ex national level C1 granted but he's just posted video footage of taking that board out on a downwinder in huge swell and a F6 gale. Its damn impressive.

And the link to the video?

Its only on a friends private facebook page. (Area10 & Luc B, I've now been able to tag you into it as you're connected to me). It's pretty impressive to watch.

Well, it’s definitely impressive to take that board out in those conditions, but it is a short clip and there isn’t much in the way of bump-riding. The camera angle is curious. I reckon I could probably have managed to get a clip like that on my JL 14x23 sidewinder or Ace and I absolutely could not cope with those boards! I’d have been on my knees the rest of the time We can all look heroes for a few seconds 😀😀😀 But I’ve paddled with that guy and his balance is very good, so maybe he was actually doing that for an hour or two solid. If so, fair play to him. He’d have had a lot more fun on a proper downwind board though - I was watching those bumps in front of him and thinking CHARGE!! but you simply can’t if your board is a twitchy as hell. What a waste of some superb conditions!

I thought there is a reason why this video is private. Now I know. doesn't seem like you're too impressed though In UK's opinion that was impressive. He is a flat water paddler after all so I can understand why.

I guess we're still hanging on with that embarrassing video

It seems nothing is going to convince you about the board and anecdotes are enough for you. That's fine. For the record though, I do surfski on bumps even if my SUP preference in different.

75

Flatwater and Touring / Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

« on: March 11, 2019, 02:47:50 PM »

Just as an aside, one of my paddling buddies has been borrowing the 24.75 Signature. He's ex national level C1 granted but he's just posted video footage of taking that board out on a downwinder in huge swell and a F6 gale. Its damn impressive.

And the link to the video?

He has posted up another one at sea on the board here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SCgZeCpReI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1k1zb4cDiKqAv0KuHdXAE3EAPeqpVcddZAahqWTgeMsWwZpz00bHMhVkg

He should have kept it private. At least there was the allure. He look like me on Jeremy Riggs board trying to catch bumps on Maliko. The word flattering doesn't come to mind
For a second there I thought to suggest to post his impressive video on Light-Sup website but now I think they'd better stick to what they have.

That's not the same video I referred to earlier. Its just one I found of him on the board recently that was public access.