Messages

361

Gear Talk / Re: double paddles

« on: June 12, 2009, 10:39:10 PM »

Wasn't there a popular thread lately about how limited many short-boarders were because they would not accept the recent breed of SUP's?

Doesn't take long before SUP's start defining what is "real", and perhaps doing the same thing, eh?  

A long double-bladed paddle would actually be pretty cool. Similar to Surfski as cross-training for Outrigger...  

362

Downwind and Racing / Re: to gps or not ?

« on: June 12, 2009, 08:33:25 PM »

If you own a JB, then you're already pretty serious about paddling. Garmin Forerunner 205/305 are relatively cheap tools that add another dimension to your paddling. Fun to tinker with and helpful for training especially using HRM function but I doubt you'll lose your mind over one. Sometimes I take mine, sometimes I forget. Just remember speed function is only course over ground.

363

SUP General / Re: STand Up Canoeing

« on: June 11, 2009, 08:15:26 PM »

One of the awesome side-effects of SUP industry is with the paddles as much the boards. All the other crafts that have been around for years can now be SUP'd.

I grew up northwoods canoeing. We would stand in tippy canoes all the time, in fact in order to pole up a river you had to stand.  Often when scouting for something while in the boat, we would stand and paddle for short periods. Problem was the paddles were short so we didn't really paddle as much as steer a bit and just scout, especially when shooting rivers. Now heck you could stand and scout and paddle and steer all day... For fun we'd stand on the gunnels at the rear of empty canoes, bounce up and down while getting a stroke on every compression, and have races. Sure wish I had my 82" Kialoa back then...

Guy in video needs to do the Canadian stroke though so he won't have to rudder/poke so much while doing the distances he was talking about...

Cool.

364

Gear Talk / Re: SUP Wetsuits

« on: June 11, 2009, 07:08:36 PM »

I've pretty much tried everything, from full-on drysuits, to Bare drysuits (bottom snug neoprene, top loose G-Tex), to shorty's, 3/2's, 4/3's, 5/4's and 6/5's.

Everybody is physiologically a bit different in cold, so this is something best left for you to personaly experience before dropping too much cash, but good to have an idea where to start from others' experience first. O'neill, Xcel, Rip Curl, Body Glove, etc.. are all good suits, but buy the suit that fits you, not blindly name brand. Manufacturers use different lasts, so a flagship model from O'neill may fit you different than a flagship model from Rip Curl. Fit is king.

I would start buy purchasing a quality 2/2 shorty and wear until too cold. Then purchase a quality 3/2 full suit, adding 3 or 5mm booties, 3-5mm gloves, and a hood until it sucks. Finally, when air temps are below freezing, wind is honking, and water temp is just plain cold, go with 5/4 with attached hood, 5 or 7mm gloves, and 7mm booties.

If you're committed, I'd look for last years' 3/2 now; as shops need to clear racks for this years stock which will be showing up in Summer and if you're in temperate waters a 3/2 is always handy. Prices for winter rubber are best now.

365

SUP General / Re: What about the hate??

« on: June 09, 2009, 08:29:27 AM »

Bill I've never understood it.

I learned to surf on a coast with marginal waves; you would think wave-starved folks there would want to try everything from shortboards, sponges, longboards, canoes, OC's, Surfski's, kayaks, skim-boards, surf & race SUB's, body-surfing, waterskiing, rowing, sailing, wakeboarding, tow-surfing, paddleboarding, freediving, windsurfing, kiteboarding, etc... My garage was filled with any and all things to enjoy the ocean with...but I was a rare breed there.

Instead, there's a reluctance to do anything but surf a board between 5'-7' and piss on everything else. It's frustrating indeed, especially seeing the youngsters looking for acceptance from a bitter older crowd and following suit. Best we can do is encourage what we do. Dilute the parochial leadership with an alternative; some will get it, some won't. It was good that you reacted as you did. Know when to bend but know when to strike.

366

Downwind and Racing / Re: New 14' Penetrator pics.

« on: June 08, 2009, 07:19:17 PM »

Interesting concept with the scuppers, do you find that waves reverse-flush the deck through scuppers when picking up downwind swells?

367

SUP General / Re: Oceanography Question: At what point in a swell are the largest waves coming in?

« on: June 08, 2009, 09:17:21 AM »

Diesel,

These days I live in SoCal but sure wouldn't mind being in the Islands.... 50 doesn't really have any significance though. Cheers.

Bill,

Mine was a hasty blurb to underscore the significance of the many variables that go into wave prediction, but I respect you calling me out and making me work for it...    Any mention of period length was relative to shallow water (<30m) shoaling waves created on surface exclusively by wind with period <20s. The difficulty is terminology; Wave theory and surf talk have identical words but sometimes different meanings. The real difficulty of verifying any validity to my second statement is the lack of ability to objectively measure wave height.  Actual waves produced at a spot from 6'@12s versus 6'@8s reported by closest NDBC buoy 6 miles away, is difficult to measure when sitting on your board and you're not using anything but seat of the pants feel; it could have just been my wave choices those days I noticed it. Of course, then we have to look at the algorithms NDBC uses to determine wave heights. Their sensors are purely accelerometers I believe. Info I get is significant wave height (WVHGT), average wave period (AVGPD), and dominant period (DOMPD). Although these data provide better than averages, there's still plenty of waves outside those measurements a surfer can experience, leading one to contrast their experience with what wave theory predicts. It could simply be those days with longer periods I made poor wave choices and the days of shorter period waves created by on-shore storms with little fetch, that I made good wave choices. Again, to objectively measure would require me to surf those spots exclusively for more sessions than I'm willing to surf there, when there are better places to go.
Yes, for identical bottom slope and water depth, a longer period wave will take greater time to bunch up, reach critical peak and break than a wave of shorter period. But the longer period wave "should" feel punchier and larger than shorter period wave (assuming my wave selection identical), not the opposite. I guess to really pick this apart, we need to add wave velocity and wave length to the discussion. Some of these relationships are linear, some are not so linear. Guess that's what makes this fun to discuss.

Of course the more I try and explain, the less I realize that I really understand....back to the books!

368

SUP General / Re: Oceanography Question: At what point in a swell are the largest waves coming in?

« on: June 06, 2009, 06:34:12 AM »

Diesel,

If you're into SUP, you're likely into surfing, and therefore into the ocean.

If weather-sports consumes you as it does most here, you will likely become a scientist; it's just another cool aspect of these activities. Geography, oceanography, meteorology, biology, etc... take on a whole new meaning; they now are relevant topics to your lifestyle. Your family will wonder why you have text books at your bedside table, but are not taking any classes...at least for a little while until it just becomes normal.

...And you thought that just a big board, long paddle, and a little time on the water was all this investment would be...

A book mentioned earlier "Surf Science: An Introduction to Waves for Surfing" by Tony Butt is a great start; easy reading for starters yet packed with information as is the links provided. National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Weather is another. All great stuff and inexpensive.

If the waves are coming from the same direction during same tide at same time of day/month/year during same direction/speed of wind over the same bottom with the same wave-height, then the waves with longer period will "generally" be larger and more powerful. But all those variables come into play every time. I've skunked myself enough times (ie: decided not to surf when I thought it would be small, yet it turned out good) to know that every variable counts, and sometimes it's best to just go surfing. There are fantastic free online surf forecasts being published today so you don't have to learn it all and be your own prediction center, but it definitely helps score more and plan your time. Just keeping an history of observations, as you evidently do, is HUGE.

There are two spots near me that for whatever reason, always seem to fire better with short-period wind swell over long-period ground swell (all other variables constant). It shouldn't be that way but it is...perhaps I'm overlooking something...so your environment may not always follow the models...and that's cool too.

Oh, and don't discount Deb's observations....there is much truth to that!

Enjoy; stay curious!

369

Technique / Re: Best Breathing (or lack thereof) Practice for Hold Downs?

« on: May 03, 2009, 08:49:23 AM »

Hi all, new member been sup'n about a year and digging it.

Have had some experience breath holding (freediving, etc...) so I hope whatever I share helps.

First, before breathhold  training, google "Shallow Water Blackout" and study; it's knowledge is essential for waterfolk. SWB will kill the unwary, as it has already killed many experienced freedivers and surfers (it's assumed that SWB killed Jay Moriarity). Most training methods do not increase your inspirary lung volume, rather they train your system to ignore CO2 chemoreceptors that signal your "urge" to breath when holding breath. So breathholding underwater is an inherently dangerous undertaking, but can be done safely when understood.

For me, relaxing is most important element of breath holding and riding out hold-down's. But, to relax you need confidence and that comes from experience & training.

Breathhold training on couch is a good start, it builds confidence that you can hold breath longer than 2-minutes and if you pass out, well just keep the glass foot table far enough away so you don't brain yourself on the way down, and you'll wake up okay. Be a tough story to tell your pals how you got the gash on your head. While holding your breath, think about relaxing, slowing heart rate down, minimizing movement, in essence, going zen. That many high-end freedivers are into meditation/yoga/etc... is no coincidence; the better you can relax & control your physiology. One old crusty spearo told me he would "shut off" his hearing while diving just to save oxygen to that system...dunno if it worked but he could do multiple 2-minute working dives and go much longer when needed.

The next would be of course to breathhold in the element you're preparing for. Please, ALWAYS do this in tandem or more, NEVER alone. Freediving is a good start and spearing/bottom scratching by breath is a blast and fun to feed family/friends/neighbors with your catch. Great activity when it's flat. There's also other activities, like the infamous carrying weight while walking the bottom that was popularized by surfing media over last decade.

If your a confident breathholder, then time getting worked in waves builds confidence there. I'll usually dive for best penetration, but if i'm sucked over I'll instinctively fall into a fetal position w/arms covering head (defensive boxer position) and ride it out. No use wasting energy struggling to go nowhere. As stated earlier, first be relaxed in the size of waves your surfing. That of course isn't always realistic, you gotta grow someday but do it reasonably. Be comfortable getting worked in 3' waves before paddling into 6', and bigger. For the most part, in waves of reasonable size at a safe break I enjoy getting worked. I mean, what other activity in the world can you get ragdolled, then come up laughing? 'Course I'm not talking about getting sucked over Mav's for 2-wave holdowns, but getting worked is relatively safe with the right attitude & training.

Anyway, for what it's worth; many have likely different views that are probably better but this has worked for me. Great site here, lots of info I wish I had last year... Cheers -JC

370

Events / Re: Northeast Events?

« on: April 30, 2009, 07:55:17 PM »

Essex River Race (9 May, 5.5 miles) and Blackburn Challenge (18 July, 22 miles) are two races in Gloucester, MA area that are just begging to be SUP'd.

http://www.blackburnchallenge.com/

Also check out East Coast Outrigger Racing Association (ECORA) website for race schedules. SUP races out on West Coast piggybacked on other paddling events and East Coast is doing same. Most ECORA stuff is mid-Atlantic, however take notice of SUP categories at races in CT and ME.

http://www.eastcoastoutrigger.com/schedule.html

371

Events / Re: Northeast Events?

« on: April 30, 2009, 04:37:22 PM »

Essex River Race (9 May, 5.5 miles) and Blackburn Challenge (18 July, 22 miles) are two races in Gloucester, MA area that are just begging to be SUP'd.

http://www.blackburnchallenge.com/