Coast Guard responds to HPWA request for vessel reclass w/ back of hand

[Strand Leper]

Everything was fort of okay until the "You want me out of the water..." paragraph... that's when I lost it... oh well... 

[PonoBill]

I always get a laugh out of the "safety concerns". Pure nonsense. Which would you rather be hit in the face with, a nice pointed shortboard, a longboard, or a SUP board?

In other words, you have to be pretty clueless to cite relative safety in surfing. Surfing is potentially dangerous to anyone using the same water. End of story. People who don't like SUPs could give a rip about safety--it's a red herring and a monumentally stupid one. Spend a few moments looking for SUP safety statistics--oops, there aren't any. Surfing safety stats--my, there's lots of that.

Riffing off your empty head about theoretical dangers when ten minutes on Google yields real ones that point the other way doesn't cut much mustard.

People always do it though. Damned snowboarders, plunking themselves down in the middle of the run talking on their cell phone--SAFETY ISSUE!!!  How about showing the tiniest shred of integrity and saying they just f@*king annoy you.

[PonoBill]

One last thing while I'm ranting. New Jersey? Are you kidding me? I've surfed in New Jersey. What, are there maybe thirty people doing SUP there? "Numerous accidents" Wow. Numerous--that many!! As far as I could see 90 percent of the surfers out on any given day in New Jersey were doing it for the first time. Certainly looked that way. You may be good competition for Kelly Slater but most of the surfing I've seen there is kooks on softops going straight in beach break. How can you possibly think SUPs add significantly to the hazard?

[surf monkey]

wow New Jersey don't you have some snow to shovel, what you didn't make any money promoting a SUP race?

That's the problem with SUP's people with their head stuck in the snow trying to regulate people that paddle everyday.

Hope you don't slip on the ice it can be dangerous. 

[surfcowboy]

It's all perception -

Tim, you are spot on. The surf industry is selling fake rebellion and it's no cooler than Hot Topic selling a Sex Pistols shirt. My friends who give me the most guff for paddling are the guys who will never go surf with me for a million lame reasons. (mostly their tiny boards won't catch perfectly good 3 foot waves.)

My new rule? You can only give me sh&t if you are in the water with me and better than me. Otherwise, pull that Billabong t-shirt (from Macy's) up over your mouth and shut it.

The funny thing is, I never hear a thing in lineups here in LA. I'm sure it happens, and I'm sure some folks are jerks but the perception is way worse than reality and surfers are way tougher on the internet than in real life where an old dude with a paddle might embarrass them in front of their friends by whipping their butts.

One final note -  we'd never hear the end of it if people were actually hurt by boards or paddles. Crawlers would post about it forever, but you can search the net and there's nothing.

It's not 2007 anymore. The Surfpocalypse isn't coming. Children aren't being mowed down by 12' Lairds. It never happened. It's not gonna happen. Lay down and surf...

[surf monkey]

Everything was fort of okay until the "You want me out of the water..." paragraph... that's when I lost it... oh well...  

Tim

I hear what your saying, it's a constant battle I live about 5 houses from the beach that I grew up on. I have a pro surfer that lives on the street behind me also Dane Reynolds and his camera guy parks on my street. The wanna be surf guys follow the cameras so there is some surfing talent in the water scrapping for waves. Then the old fat guy (me) shows up with the stand up board, Dane and Tim are cool with the stand up they get all the waves they want. But once in a while I have to remind the kids they are surfing in a local spot and look out it's a big board. What's funny it is never a local guy, usually a guy that can't catch a wave that has something to say.

I have to admit it has gotten better most guys are use to seeing SUP's and are learning to deal with it. I know it's not going away like most surfer's hoped and it will get better.

[1tuberider]

Strike one. 

Its not till third strike when your out.  Don't get distracted by teach's comments.  Focus on the problem and that is the sup classification as a vessel. 

Go up the ladder.  My wife taught me to ask for the manager as soon as you see your stuck with the yes man.  They were trained to appease and don't have the authority to make a change.

When things are just wrong it may take many efforts to get it changed.  Lets keep beating the drums. I have sent money to HPWA.  Maybe they need more support.  And Tim, your efforts are appreciated.  I believe your the right man for shining the light on the path.  I wish I could help, but I cannot argue my way out of a fight. 

Teach, you really don't know what your talking about.  Help out by sending money to the HPWA.  Lets work united to get the vessel classification rescinded so it can help the land locked paddlers enjoy this sport even more.  The one thing I do believe that you said is that sup growth by inlanders will be the largest segment of the market. I believe that because everyone wants to surf or at least think they can.  How cool see the boards on cars thousands of miles from the ocean and smiley faces because they got in a good paddle without hassles from LE.   

[teach]

ok, back again----the SUP section of our ocean race was only five boards, they were added because a local dealer asked for it.  if they attend this year so be it.  did we make $ on them? no, awards cost more than the entry fees.  the event is a memorial not a $ event, it's aimed at the traditional prone paddlers in an open ocean environment with little or no support.   

as to my not knowing anything---i've surfed year around for 45 years and been water safety officer for 25 years, retired coastal geologist, presently trauma room nurse as my third or is it fourth career.  it is exactly the vast range of ability in both stand up and SUP on the right coast that has caused problems---one ten foot SUP sliding sideways through the lineup  is like an 18 wheeler on the parkway out of control sweeping up the other ocean users.

some of your 'venters' and 'whiners'   are exactly the problem with their demand for free range rights and 'make me go away' attitude. 

o, and there were NO sups out in the surf here on christmas eve or christmas day....just us locals

ok, have at it again...

[PonoBill]

versus a nine foot longboard or a loose, nicely pointed shortboard? Get real. All of us spend time in the water, most of us have done so for many years. You don't need an extensive curriculum vitae to be full of crap.

Certainly incidents happen. I watched one yesterday at Ho'okipa. A guy paddling out got denied by a mushy little wave and got shoved into a girl behind him. Oh, wait, that was a longboard. Doesn't count.

[teach]

pono --u didn't read --it's the range on ability in BOTH standing surfers and SUPs that is at issue. plus as many of you admit many of  you don't use leashes, and the sheer mass of the standard SUP vs the lighter surf board.   i'm for segregation in the surf for safety, until the skill level even out ( just as surfer are segregated from bather  or body surfers)  .  as to my background, it was to show that i do have a 'vague' idea.

[PonoBill]

Another red herring. Have you EVER seen someone out on a stand up board not using a leash? Of the hundreds of people on SUPs I've seen, I recall one. And when he asked me to help him retrieve his board I told him to swim for it (though I did keep an eye on him to make sure he didn't kack).

We see more people on SUPs on a Tuesday in Maui than anyone on the mainland sees in a month. That's not an exaggeration. At all the beginner spots on any suitable day there are dozens of beginners on longboards, dozens of tourists on softops being pushed into waves by "instructors" and maybe a dozen SUPs. Here's what you really see. Knots of people on longboards--they tend to really wad up together--and a few SUPs wobbling around on the periphery. Lots of opportunity for accidents, but the reality is that there aren't many and the overwhelming majority of accidents have to do with getting hit by your own board. I'd guess that's more than 80 percent. The longboarders get tangled up with each other, but the SUP beginners tend to stay away. I don't know if that's because the rental shops tell them to, or they just naturally need to keep moving and so don't knot up, but that's the way it is. Anyone here will tell you the same thing, all you have to do is look out at the water to see it.

At the more intermediate spots like Kanaha on a mid-sized weekend I've counted 80+ longboards, and handful of shortboards, and 40+ SUPs. Probably  half of the SUP surfers are competent, meaning they can catch a wave, turn on it, and control their board. The other half are not. They tend to group up on the inside and far right of the break. The hazard they represent is they drop in, or stand in the way like deer in the headlights.

Obviously mayhem will ensue. Only it doesn't. People work it out.

Irritating to the longboarders that have been surfing Kanaha for 30 years or so--of course. Dangerous? Not so much.

The real point is your assertion that the coast guard is responding to some safety issue that has to do with surfing--they are not. The Coast Guard has no jurisdiction or interest in the surf zone. No PFDs required, no leashes required, no light, whistles of flares.

And the simple fact that place like Maui where every other truck has a surfboard on it, we've made accommodations and SUPs are grudgingly welcome. Most of the guys that used to give me the cold shoulder are friends now. Some of the former biggest pains in the ass are on SUPs some of the time.

[gorgebob]

I can only hope it works its self out with some common sense and and help from all involved.
If we can't get along and fights breakout the authorities will want to get involved and close the beaches to all surfers and any surfing at all.

[teach]

 "Have you EVER seen someone out on a stand up board not using a leash?" <------Yes, in fact they are sold as an option here in the east and 'some' don't spend the $---had one slide over my back on a wave last summer , no leash, rider lost paddle also, swam in never returned.

i'm glad things are so wonderful on Maui....it's just not that way in the rest of the known world......not being a longboard rider, i don't hang with them, but yes they do clump, natural segregation. 

i suppose it's all about the common sense of the individual.  too bad common sense ain't all that common

ok, i'm done here----12 hour shift starts in two hours---happy amateur nite for the ER ---got to love new years eve.......

[PonoBill]

Things ARE wonderful on Maui, but that's not what I was talking about. Just that big threat of SUPs as "giant boards in the lineup" isn't what people make it out to be. It's just an excuse to try to eliminate something you don't like. It's not just Maui, I've driven up and down the west coast each of the past three years surfing every likely spot that met my fancy on my way to or from the BOP. Looks just like Maui everywhere, except far fewer SUPs, millions of surfers, (and a lot more volume to the hysteria). There are kooks on sups and there are kooks on longboards, shortboards, sponges, surf mats, and bodysurfing. Each represents their own particular hazard. Might even be tow-in kooks and foil board kooks. Pretty sure Laird thinks so.

If I were going to get my skivvies in a knot on safety I'd be singling out longboards, where the overwhelming majority of newbie surfers crawl. Statistics bear that out, though surfing is actually considerably safer than a lot of sports.

[stoneaxe]

Must be a Jersey thing. I haven't seen one SUP out without a leash when there was anyone else around.

"Some don't spend the $"...LOL...lets see I just dropped $1,000 on a SUP but I want to save $25 and not buy a leash and not only risk hurting someone but put that $1,000 investment at risk of getting banged up on the rocks? What a BS statement...but again..maybe its a Jersey thing.

What point were you making with the Christmas comment? Was that supposed to mean something? I could say the same thing...except this local was on a SUP.