Author Topic: Lighter is faster- real world test results  (Read 24871 times)

blueplanetsurf

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Lighter is faster- real world test results
« on: November 09, 2010, 11:18:48 AM »
This new topic continues the discussion from the "Heavier is Faster?" thread at:
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=9373.45

You may want to read it first to understand the motivation for this experiment proposed by LaPerouseBay.

My weight is just under 200 pounds, the board itself weighs just over 30 lbs, I added 30 pounds on the deck for testing.

Here are the results of the 400 ft sprint test:
with 30# weight: 
Run 1: 49 seconds
Run 2: 49 seconds
Run 3: 48 seconds

without extra weight:
Run 1: 45 seconds
Run 2: 45 seconds

The acclereation was noticeably faster with the lighter board and the 3-4 seconds difference is significant.

For the half mile test, the results were less pronounced but still significant- as follows (wind was light 2-5 knots):

with 30# extra: Upwind: 5:44,  downwind: 5:29
without extra weight: upwind: 5:22, downwind: 5:16

Unfortunately the camera angle shifted and I did not get the GPS on video in the sprints. 

I got some good video of the half mile runs, will post videos later for analysis, need to go to work now.



Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

robon

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 12:28:06 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Now, spread the weights out across the board to more accurately reflect weight distribution of a heavier SUP, and do it again. ;D

I'm also still very interested in deceleration of the weighted board vs un-weighted.. Which board glides further after a pedal stroke and which stops faster?

AirJunky

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 01:14:46 PM »
Good stuff. Thanks for proving a point.

Less than 9% difference in the sprint. And like 6% or 7% difference over the longer run.

Definitely a lot if your racing. But for those of us who are just out there for exercise or to have fun, a heavier, but more durable board will probably be just fine.
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Bill

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 01:28:32 PM »
I know you guys are talking race boards but I have a really heavy sup surf board and it hauls ass down the line....just cant turn it without feeling like you'er gona blow out a knee. It drops in nice, even better than my lite board but couldn't turn it  at the last minute if my life depended on it. Hope this helps at all.... I know nothing of race boards. Aloha!

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 01:50:20 PM »
Ideally the weight would be distributed evenly throughout the board but since that is not an option, putting it on top is the next best thing.  I don't think spreading the weights over the deck will make a noticeable difference in the test results, as the weight will still be on top and not distributed evenly.  I think the extra weight would be least noticable at the bottom of the board, like pdxmike suggested- putting sand in a hollow roto molded board as that should actually make the board more stable, like a keel on a sailboat.  
Anyway, I will re-do the sprint tests and can try to spread the weight out to see if there is a difference.  I will also let the board run without stroking at the end of the run to see how fast it decelerates with vs. without the extra weight.

The two videos I have of the half mile run that came out good with the speed on screen are really big files.  I'm loading them on youtube now but it's taking forever.

Here is what I noticed watching the videos:
With the 30# extra weight it took me 7 seconds and 8 strokes to accelerate to 5 mph
Without the extra weight only 5 seconds and 6 strokes.
As my friend Scott pointed out, this can be the difference between getting into a bump vs. missing it in downwinders.
I also noticed that the weighted board has more of a wake and turbulence behind the tail and seemed to make more noise over the water.

Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 02:28:05 PM »
Good stuff. Thanks for proving a point.

Less than 9% difference in the sprint. And like 6% or 7% difference over the longer run.

Definitely a lot if your racing. But for those of us who are just out there for exercise or to have fun, a heavier, but more durable board will probably be just fine.

Yes, the difference is significant but not that big and this is at double the weight.
Part of why I wanted to do this test:
The 12'6 Amundson board I used is available in AST construction for $1299 and carbon/kevlar for $1699.   The weight difference is 4 lbs, so you pay $100 extra per pound saved.
Stiffness needs to be considered, too and might matter as much or more than weight.  Stiffer is faster in a racing board and if a lighter board flexes more it could actually be slower.
Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

AirJunky

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 02:38:58 PM »
Stiffness needs to be considered, too and might matter as much or more than weight.  Stiffer is faster in a racing board and if a lighter board flexes more it could actually be slower.
After paddling a few epoxy SUPs this summer, I had a chance to go down a river with some very mellow currents. I was told there would be some rocks, so I rented an inflatable SUP for it.... a C4 I believe. The flex, or what I called the "taco effect" made the board considerably less stable for me, which meant I spent more effort concentrating on staying upright, and less effort on paddling.

After seeing the plastic SUPs that Imagine has released this year, specifically the RapidFire, but even some of the others, I am very interested in taking one out for a spin. Knowing the plastic boards are quite a bit heavier, I wondered how much slower they were. But I think that "taco effect" of the inflatables vs the weight of the plastic SUPs will make the two interesting to compare.
Personally I'd chose durable & stable over portable any day..... assuming speed wasn't that big a difference.
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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 02:53:41 PM »
blueplanetsurf--thanks for doing that--very interesting. 

I think I came the closest with my guess, out of the two people who committed to percentages.  I'm going to use some of my prize money to go to Hawaii someday and try surfing and downwinders.  I'm using another portion to set up a gear fund.  Maybe some more will go to StrandLeper's HWPA fund...

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 04:15:54 PM »
pdxmike, yes, your guess was closest, so you win.
I forgot to mention that the prize has no cash value and you have to come to Oahu to collect it   ;D
When you do come here to visit you can use any of our SUP demo boards at no charge while you are here, plus I'll take you on some downwinders, how is that?

I'm still waiting for the second video to upload to youtube and will hopefully post them soon.
Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

Scotty Mac

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 05:38:19 PM »
If you added 30 pounds added approx 4 seconds, I guess if you only had added 5 pound, the difference is only 0.6 of a second. This probally puts a more real perspective as I am guessing the weight differences between boards is about 5 pounds generally?? Good test, results look real.

robon

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 06:00:15 PM »
Ideally the weight would be distributed evenly throughout the board but since that is not an option, putting it on top is the next best thing.  I don't think spreading the weights over the deck will make a noticeable difference in the test results, as the weight will still be on top and not distributed evenly.  I think the extra weight would be least noticable at the bottom of the board, like pdxmike suggested- putting sand in a hollow roto molded board as that should actually make the board more stable, like a keel on a sailboat.  
Anyway, I will re-do the sprint tests and can try to spread the weight out to see if there is a difference.  I will also let the board run without stroking at the end of the run to see how fast it decelerates with vs. without the extra weight.

The two videos I have of the half mile run that came out good with the speed on screen are really big files.  I'm loading them on youtube now but it's taking forever.

Here is what I noticed watching the videos:
With the 30# extra weight it took me 7 seconds and 8 strokes to accelerate to 5 mph
Without the extra weight only 5 seconds and 6 strokes.
As my friend Scott pointed out, this can be the difference between getting into a bump vs. missing it in downwinders.
I also noticed that the weighted board has more of a wake and turbulence behind the tail and seemed to make more noise over the water.

Cool stuff. The only thing I wonder about is that you doubled the weight of the board, but the weight is concentrated in one area. Would this not cause a central area of more friction in one area of the SUP as compared to spreading the weights over the length of the board? I agree that there probably won't be much of a difference at all, but I've gone into geek mode with this experiment. Imo, putting 30 extra pounds right in the middle of the board is akin to throwing a bag in the middle or more reflective of the effect a heavier rider has and not as much as a heavier board itself. I realize that it is nearly impossible to cover all the variables, but I'm just throwing this out there.

PT Woody

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 07:10:54 PM »
Great test, thanks for going to the trouble.

I suspect everyone will find their own form of vindication in the results. For me, I feel that this proves board weight is essentially irrelevant, given that the differences are far less than the doubling of weight in this example. This is especially true for downwinders and for anyone considering the Naish Glide 14' or the Starboard Surf Race 14' and in particular, choosing between carbon and AST. Clearly the substantial cost differential does not appear to pay off in performance, so as DJ has said, it's all about lifting the board on and off your car.

On the other hand, the test has also proven the point for those arguing that heavier riders are disadvantaged on a limited class board. By the way, you didn't mention what board you used for the test. I wonder if a longer and more buoyant board would make much of a difference with additional weighting.

pdxmike

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 07:58:08 PM »
pdxmike, yes, your guess was closest, so you win.
I forgot to mention that the prize has no cash value and you have to come to Oahu to collect it   ;D
When you do come here to visit you can use any of our SUP demo boards at no charge while you are here, plus I'll take you on some downwinders, how is that?

I'm still waiting for the second video to upload to youtube and will hopefully post them soon.
Robert--that's really generous.  I am definitely going to get to Hawaii one of these days!

Six Feet and Glassy

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 10:41:42 PM »
Durn.  I thought my guess was pretty good until I checked out the weight limit on one of those 12'6's (well, another brand, but 29 inches wide).  Oy.  Those things can hold guys 250 lbs?!  Yikes!!!

I thought he'd have that thing buried with 30 lbs added. I was hoping for video of just the nose sticking out of the water.  Heh.  Oh well...That was no fun.  :D

Sheriously, though, Thanks again for doing this, BluePlanet.  Great stuff!
Ken

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Re: Lighter is faster- real world test results
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2010, 11:53:04 PM »
Save your self money on a lighter board just loose an extra 10 pounds and then you will be lighter. Its amazing how much we critique just a few pounds difference on a board verse actually rider weight which is going to make the biggest difference. Don't care how light your board is if your riders are 50lbs difference in weight board weight won't make that big a difference. Now if the races were by rider weight class which would be nice than having a lighter board would give you an edge. Having a lighter board does help cut down on overall weight making it paddle quicker guess it just depends on where your level of paddling is. If your at that point where you are pro top shape and advanced technique where a few less pounds of boards will make a difference or still rookie to intermediate level where the extra money is just a waste. Just saying big mistake a lot of rookies make board weight isn't going to win a race alone compared to fitness and technique, the best isn't always the answer.
Its like all the guys big fat guys you see buying carbon fiber parts for their bike or race car to shave a few pounds when they could loose 100lbs themselves ironic LOL

Cool test though thanks for the info :)

 


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