Author Topic: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'  (Read 13984 times)

DavidJohn

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 09:23:40 PM »
With me feedback I received with the Bullet it seems to have more volume in all the right areas. compared to the Naish having a more slimmed out pointy nose causing it to stay buried when you take off bigger and steeper bumps. With the Bullet having more buoyancy throughout its whole outline it's capable of staying a float longer to keep more of a consistent glide. So the Bullet has a great advantage in our conditions and more user friendly compared to the Naish but in the end the Bullet cost more and it is a huge difference when comparing to the Naish in performance.

I agree in some ways but I have more to add.

Those new at down-winding will find themselves pearling/poking heaps and the slightly increased rocker, outline and volume of the Bullet may help with this.. Once you get better at down-winders you will not get yourself in the pearling/poking position so often and when you do it it will be shallow and the nose shape of the Naish might even work better slowing you down less.. I still don't think there would be a 'huge' difference in performance comparing the Naish 17 and the Bullet.

DJ

 

Takeo

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2010, 05:41:50 PM »
Aside from the similarities in length, these two boards are two totally different boards.  SUP Ninja is right, the volume in the Bullet's nose area appears to be more than the Naish, which was designed for less pearling, or quicker release when it does.  From what I hear, the design works.  Check out the SIC videos, you'll see it first hand. Not all downwinds are the same, therefore, it's important to choose a board that is best suited for the conditions you will be paddling in. 

I spoke to a local paddler who has a Bullet on order and who has also spent hours paddling the Naish.  He told me this, that the Naish nose does burry more and it has nothing to do with his lack of experience.  Our open ocean swells have very spaced out rollers, sometimes 8-10 feet with side chop and winds at all directions.  He said that the Bullet tends to plow less in these conditions and he believes that overall, it's a faster board.  One day, they did a run with the Naish 17, Bullet, and F16 V2.  The three riders switched boards and all agreed that for that day, the Bullet ruled!  When it's blowing hard, the F16 V2 seems to catch the bumps a lot better and holds it's stability.

I don't want to turn this into a pissing match, I'm just sharing what was shared with me.  I paddled the Bullet and the Naish 17 and to me, the Bullet was much more comfortable in terms of deck comfort, tiller, and responsiveness in the water.  Not sure if it's actually lighter in weight, but just felt lighter on the water. 

They both are great boards and the Naish would be the deal at over a grand less.

1paddle2paddle

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 04:52:45 PM »
Since I own the Naish 17 I figured I'd chime in.  The issue with the board for me is not so much that the nose "pokes" or pearls (though it does do that sometimes), its that the flat planing style nose will not (usually) punch through the swell in front of the bump I'm riding. 

A displacement style nose is designed to punch through (rather than ride over) water, and from my experience on my surfski, the nose of the boat would punch through the back of the bump in front of me, allowing me to "railroad" bumps and drop into troughs ahead of the bump I caught.  I am usually not able to do this on my 17 because as I'm dropping into a bump, as soon as the nose is catching up to the back of the bump in front it starts to lift, thereby killing my glide.  I try to minimize this situation by dropping in at an angle to the direction of the bump, but I'm not fast enough on the board to get around the bump in front of me.

I think the future of downwind boards will be displacement style noses that are better able to handle closely spaced bumps, and which can punch through (rather than try to ride over) the bump in front of the rider.

CMC

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2010, 05:21:51 PM »
Since I own the Naish 17 I figured I'd chime in.  The issue with the board for me is not so much that the nose "pokes" or pearls (though it does do that sometimes), its that the flat planing style nose will not (usually) punch through the swell in front of the bump I'm riding. 

A displacement style nose is designed to punch through (rather than ride over) water, and from my experience on my surfski, the nose of the boat would punch through the back of the bump in front of me, allowing me to "railroad" bumps and drop into troughs ahead of the bump I caught.  I am usually not able to do this on my 17 because as I'm dropping into a bump, as soon as the nose is catching up to the back of the bump in front it starts to lift, thereby killing my glide.  I try to minimize this situation by dropping in at an angle to the direction of the bump, but I'm not fast enough on the board to get around the bump in front of me.

I think the future of downwind boards will be displacement style noses that are better able to handle closely spaced bumps, and which can punch through (rather than try to ride over) the bump in front of the rider.

I have no opinion on the Naish or the SIC but I agree completely with what you are saying here.  Once you paddled in bumps on OC1 (or Ski) you look at them a little differently than before.  It is the different approach to just surfing the bump you're on until it ends to actually looking for ways to get to the next and next.  The speed, hull design and sometimes paddling your butt off at the right time that allows you to do this.

Sometimes you can even go from small one to big one, over a bunch of other small ones, fall off the big one, stall momentarily and then back on one of the ones you just went over as it catches up again and start all over again.  Last week I caught so many bumps straight I actually stalled myself after a particularly long period of runs just to take it all in.  I love it! 

I agree with you, the future of DW boards will be lower rockeres displacement nosed and allow you to stay with the rudder being the most efficient way to keep speed and connect the dots in the bumps.

1paddle2paddle

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2010, 07:58:18 PM »
CMC, you are in Maui/doing Maliko runs yes?  Perfect training ground for new designs.

I'm really interested in some of those designs coming out of OZ which DJ puts on this board.  Some look like really intriguing displacement shapes. 

LaPerouseBay

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2010, 09:55:24 PM »
A displacement style nose is designed to punch through (rather than ride over) water, and from my experience on my surfski, the nose of the boat would punch through the back of the bump in front of me, allowing me to "railroad" bumps and drop into troughs ahead of the bump I caught.
In my humble opinion, railroading bumps is the holy grail of downwinding.  As we all know, various shapes will perform better depending on conditions.
 
As for intriguing shapes from down under - Stuey's penetrator 572 railroaded some bumps for me.  Conditions were perfect for the board.  Paddle effort was minimal.  I'll never forget that day.  I'm very fond of that hull shape.  

Left to right: Kiwi Mark's F-18, my old F-16 v1, the 572.  All three are fast - given the right conditions.

 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 09:58:37 PM by LaPerouseBay »
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CMC

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2010, 09:28:09 PM »
CMC, you are in Maui/doing Maliko runs yes?  Perfect training ground for new designs.

I'm really interested in some of those designs coming out of OZ which DJ puts on this board.  Some look like really intriguing displacement shapes. 

No not in Hawaii, in QLD, Australia.  We get good winds here, some say that it is a perfect training ground for Hawaii, particularly Molokai with the mixed conditions.  I guess this is proven somewhat by Jamie Mitchell etc coming from here also.

The designs DJ speaks of and posts are from one of my training partners Dale Chapman.  He is a competitive paddler, ex pro surfer and longtime shaper also.  His designs as DJ has posted have been winning races here against guys here on Naish's and SIC's consistently.  His boards are also made in Europe under licence and paddled by the best paddlers in Europe.  I think if there were ever a way for his boards to get to the US that you guys would be stoked on them also.


Simondo

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Re: SIC Bullet vs. Naish 17'
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2010, 12:55:57 AM »
The Naish 17 is also a durable and well built board.

So if you're on a 14 or smaller, and see a Naish 17 going at a good price, it is a great starting point, at a half decent price.

The nose on the 17 does pierce through when you want it to... If you use your weight, feet placement, your knees, and paddle timing, you can have half a say about where the nose is going to be, and if the nose is going to go through or over something...

Lately, if there's been no surf, I head out into the wind (say 5-15 knots), and come on back with the chop.  At 15-30 knots, I'm thinking about pure Down Wind options.

This afternoon, I was out paddling, doing "ins and outs", and I saw two other SUP's doing a DW run on surf SUP's, so I paddled over, paddled with them, then showed them what the Naish 17 can do, sitting on the little runners.  The guy is a renowned shaper down here, but he was still pretty surprised with the size and speed of the board.

 


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