Which Quickblade for downwind?

[1paddle2paddle]

8.3, 8.7, or 9 (all carbon)?

Of course the only blades I can find on island are the 8.3 blades; I'm wondering if that would work or if I should wait until they get more...

[Easy Rider]

Depends on other factors:
Your size
Your stroke rate
etc.

Personally I got a new QB carbon elite 9" and it great.

[1paddle2paddle]

Good points.  I'm 5'11 185.  Stroke rate varies whether I'm trying to catch a bump vs. paddling flatwater, etc.

After I started this thread I found an older thread discussing nearly the same topic (sorry should have searched before hand).  At first I was thinking I'd go for the 9" blade but then I saw Ponobill's post saying he was going smaller on the blade and increasing stroke rate.  I was trying to get others' perspective on whether to go bigger or smaller on the blade for primarily downwind paddling.

[DavidJohn]

  I was trying to get others' perspective on whether to go bigger or smaller on the blade for primarily downwind paddling.

Dave and I have gone from a Shaka Pu'u to Methane's and Jonathan and Cam have gone from Methane's to Pipe's.. So.. In my group of friends in my part of the world we're all going smaller for down-winders.

DJ

[Pureadrenalin]

  I was trying to get others' perspective on whether to go bigger or smaller on the blade for primarily downwind paddling.

Dave and I have gone from a Shaka Pu'u to Methane's and Jonathan and Cam have gone from Methane's to Pipe's.. So.. In my group of friends in my part of the world we're all going smaller for down-winders.

DJ

Honestly smaller makes no sense. So you are saying if you paddle a 17' SUB you are suggesting a 8" blade. That makes no sense if you are superman and the duration of the paddle is 10 minutes. Like I said it like changing gears you need to match to the tire size. Common sense will you run a 13" tire on a Brand new 1/2 ton pickup or would you run 20's on small little smart car and leave the gear a stock ratio. Same analogy no efficiency over the long haul something is going to suffer and that is the motor which is you total burn out. Why go hard when you could do it with a wider blade and if you are strong use the same cadence maybe even slower one because you are moving more water.

[downwindaddiction]

Stoke styles for me are very different depending on flat water paddling vs downwind paddling. Flat water paddling requires a very methodical consistent stroke to maintain hull speed I would agree that a 9" Kanaha would be a better choice for power and efficiency. If you look at some of the top paddler's like Tom Gallahger and Jimmy Terrel, the turn over of stroke is relatively slow but extremely efficient. In the downwind, paddle rate, force change constantly depending on if you are running or pulling yourself out of the trough. I personally like the 8-3, for ease of transition of stroke, less blade in the wind, easier on my shoulders when pulling out of the trough and a more subtle control. Not because I turn over faster all the time but some of the time. The wind is your friend and you try to use the wind to optimize your abilities. I think the 8-3 is a great tool for that job. 

[mikelefty]

I use the QB elite 8.7" (16 oz) for all my non wave surfing SUP'ng. I tend to agree with SUP NINJA, for me using my narrow Werner Carve does not allow me to plant and slide with the momentum of the wind and swell. As a lifelong skiier, I've been starting to realize using the blade downwind is less about stroke cadence  ( for me), and more about countering the loss of hull speed, change of direction for a better "line", occasionally stroking for speed. When I downhill skii, the poles are not use to propel my momentum, they are used to check my efficiency, and respond to changing transitions of the slope/grade and snow pack/powder.

I think lightweight is hugely important

For me the relatively stiff shaft of the QB elite allows me to "feel" the blade plant, gives me good proprioception  of placement so I can concentrate on using swell and wind transitions to maximize my efficiency and speed.

I expect to increase blade size with experience, however most of my downwinds require some upwind digging. The QB elites excell for me upwind.

hope my experience provides some insight.

[noa]

having launched an almost identical thread in the gear section, i see that this one has some great info. so, if i may i'll jump on.
interesting point to see the Aussies going really small with their blades.
speaking of the QB Elite. is it worth it for downwind ? i would certainly choose it in flat water but i've so far  believed that a slightly flexier shaft of the Kanaha would work better in downwind.

[DavidJohn]

  I was trying to get others' perspective on whether to go bigger or smaller on the blade for primarily downwind paddling.

Dave and I have gone from a Shaka Pu'u to Methane's and Jonathan and Cam have gone from Methane's to Pipe's.. So.. In my group of friends in my part of the world we're all going smaller for down-winders.

DJ

Honestly smaller makes no sense. So you are saying if you paddle a 17' SUB you are suggesting a 8" blade. That makes no sense if you are superman and the duration of the paddle is 10 minutes. Like I said it like changing gears you need to match to the tire size. Common sense will you run a 13" tire on a Brand new 1/2 ton pickup or would you run 20's on small little smart car and leave the gear a stock ratio. Same analogy no efficiency over the long haul something is going to suffer and that is the motor which is you total burn out. Why go hard when you could do it with a wider blade and if you are strong use the same cadence maybe even slower one because you are moving more water.

I know it seems a bit weird and I think about it alot.. My friend Cam is the fastest around here and wins all the races and he uses a tiny Kialoa Pipes paddle for both surf and for his Naish 17.. and he's not a small guy.

I can relate to if in cycling terms.. If you could only have one front chain ring out of a larg and small what would you have.. I'd pick the small even though it may seem slower.. It's better to spin faster than to be out of the seat grinding and straining.

DJ

[1paddle2paddle]

having launched an almost identical thread in the gear section, i see that this one has some great info. so, if i may i'll jump on.
interesting point to see the Aussies going really small with their blades.
speaking of the QB Elite. is it worth it for downwind ? i would certainly choose it in flat water but i've so far  believed that a slightly flexier shaft of the Kanaha would work better in downwind.

I think the flex of the shaft is a personal preference thing.  Personally I like a shaft with some additional give, which is why I shied away from the Elite because I understood it to be a very rigid shaft.

I also find it amazing the fastest guy Down Under is using such a small blade.  Me wonders if its more the paddler than the blade...?  I tried one run downwind with my Infinity Ottertail and said "never again."

[kseal3]

Yes me too I perfer the Flex shaft as well...the QB IHE is where it's at!!!

Hey scott I have a 9.7 IHE I could maybe part with if you need it (jerry told me the 2 paddles at the park...sorry to hear about that) but it's only 79"... PM me if you think it'll work for you.

[noa]

As always, everyone has their own way of seeing things.
Tell me what you think of the following ;
in downwind we usually use a high stroke rate to catch the bumps.
recently there is a big turn towards the Tahitian paddling style which requires
fast and short strokes. Logic would have it that for that style of paddling,
a stiff shaft (coupled with a smaller blade) would allow one to have his paddling power transmited directly into forward momentum.
Of course a stiff shaft is harder on the joints, but there is a trade off to everything. 

[Pureadrenalin]

As always, everyone has their own way of seeing things.
Tell me what you think of the following ;
in downwind we usually use a high stroke rate to catch the bumps.
recently there is a big turn towards the Tahitian paddling style which requires
fast and short strokes. Logic would have it that for that style of paddling,
a stiff shaft (coupled with a smaller blade) would allow one to have his paddling power transmited directly into forward momentum.
Of course a stiff shaft is harder on the joints, but there is a trade off to everything. 

I have used both shafts with a 9.1,9.4 and a 9.7 width blade and I honestly can tell you there is not much difference. Using a 9.1 blade with a stiff shaft versus a 9.7 with a flex shaft for downwinders makes all the difference in the world. You paddle less you get on the bumps quicker and the cadence is more efficient stroke overall.  Whereas using the 9.4 carbon shaft is a very happy medium I prefer to paddle only as the Ihe blade because the flex in the tip is enough to be forgiving on the body and its a great overall paddle. Another thing we noticed about using a flex shaft versus a carbon shaft is paddling upwind and alot of us agrees this is where it shines the most.

[noa]

Hello Sup ninja,
i think we had a simular discussion on the Ihe tread. first i would like to thank you for sharing your knowledge which excedes mine. having said that, i would like to ask pretty much the same question again.
i will not reffer to the Ihe as it's not available to me.
the Kanaha however is, so if they have the same blade, the 100sq in for example, what would be the performance difference (used exclusively for downwind) between the Kanaha all carbon (flexier shaft) and the Kanaha Elite (stiffer shaft).
in this scenario, how would the Elite with it's stiffer shaft not perform better in a high cadence stroke rate ?

[1paddle2paddle]

I think there is an assumption of energy loss with a more flexible blade which may be overstated.  First of all, the idea of the stroke is not to "pull" water, but rather to plant the blade and pull the board to the blade, exiting cleanly, and repeating.  While there might be some energy loss with a more flexible blade (some of the force being used to bend the blade, if this is not recaptured when the blade returns to straight), I believe this loss to be marginal.  While it is probably true that a stiffer blade has less energy loss, I wonder how important that really is...?

But practically, I can tell the difference in how a super stiff blade feels compared to a blade with more flex.  I do not like the feel of a paddle with no give.