Author Topic: Need tips on paddling the K15  (Read 6308 times)

paddledaddy

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Need tips on paddling the K15
« on: April 26, 2010, 07:09:03 AM »
This post may actually belong in the technique category, but I thought I would get more help here. Anyway,  I recently purchased a Starboard K15 and while it is faster than other boards I have paddled I have been having a hard time controling the baord with its sharp nose and tail and rounded bottom when the wind is 10 - 15 mph or greater. I am fine straight into the wind and swell or with the wind and swell but I have a hard time controling the direction of the board when I am more than say 15 degrees off of dead center into the wind and I also have a heard time controling the direction of the board when I am on small wind swell.

I am a pretty solid intermediate SUPer. I have been SUPing since StandUp Zone began and am really only limited now by my crapy fitness level. I can handle other boards much better in these situations including the the Naish Glide 12, DW Garage board alot like a Naish 14, and the Starboard 12'2" x26.

Are there any general guidelines about handling boards with rounded bottoms and sharp noses and tails that may help me handle the K15 better?

greatdane

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 07:26:47 AM »
Hey... here are some "best guesses" to what might be going on... you may already know this stuff.  Race style boards with low-rocker a lot of times have hard rails that  go farther up the board than a DW or surf board.  This makes them steer more like kayaks than surf boards.  I.e: opposite.  To turn the board right, you weight the opposite rail... very counter-intuitive at first.  So if the wind is hitting you from the right, the board will want to get pushed left, so I weight the left rail to help counter-act that.  Race boards with the "piercing bow" catch a lot of side wind up there and get pushed around a lot.

I have only paddled the K15 in dead calm conditions, so can't directly relate... but one of the 14 foot boards I have been paddling is very similar.  Hope this helps.

Hopefully Easy Rider will chime in... he's paddled that board a bit I think.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 07:28:37 AM by greatdane »
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DavidJohn

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 07:29:14 AM »
Lucky it's not a K14..  ;D .. btw.. Is it a wobble problem or a steering/tracking problem?

If it's anything like the Starboard Pin it's also hard work on a runner unless you keep it going straight.. and run into the back of the wave in front.. rather than turn across and surf it like a wave.

My friend Jonathan has just got a new K15 so when he gets back from Hawaii I'll try and have a go of it and see what you mean.. I'm sure he won't mind swapping with my Jav for a while..  :)

DJ

paddledaddy

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 07:45:54 AM »
It's not a wobble problem, more of a tracking problem. I feel like I am fighting the board to gain control all the time. Into the wind it wants to track straight in the direction it wants to go, with the wind it's not dead set on a direction, I just can't seem to create any resistance against the fin to control the direction it chooses. I was testing different boards this Saturday and the other boards I mentioned could be controlled like a surfboard on the windswell but the K15 doesn't respond that way. Still it is much faster and I think once I get the hang of it I will enjoy it.

PonoBill

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 10:12:37 AM »
I only have a layman's notion of how shapes work, but I've noticed that most good downwind or racing boards take a lot of time to learn. I think when you go after speed you sacrifice the simple "push this edge down and it turns that way" kind of control. I still don't have a complete idea of how my Foote Maliko 14 works, sometimes it seems to have a mind of it's own. I can get it to go in the general direction I want , but the little tweaks escape me--rarely does the same thing twice. The Penetrator would be worse, but it's got a rudder. My F18 is a planing hull, so it pretty much behaves itself, but it's a lot of work, and it's only fast when the swells are huge.

Still, this might help. It seems to me that as you move forward on the board, where the rails are softer and the waterline wider, that pressing on a rail makes it turn the opposite way. That is, when you press on the right rail the board turns left. Turns are slow and sometimes rail pressure doesn't seem to do anything. As you move to the back and get the nose up, the boards switches to normal control: press right, go right. The turns are quicker and the the board seems more responsive.

When I need to be forward on the board I do most of my steering with the paddle. I'm pretty comfortable with it's wandering ways. In a crosswind it's OK because I can get further forward and stroke hard, using a draw to keep the board headed correctly. When I catch a bump I zip to the tail and surf the board. Magic.

I know this sounds like a pain in the a$$, but it's a very rewarding board to ride. Reminds me of a spirited horse. You don't want to put your Mom on it, but it's a lot of fun. When I see someone like Jeremy riding a Footie I see how the board CAN be ridden. If he's having any control problems I can't detect them.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

paddledaddy

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 01:06:27 PM »
Thanks all. I did try leaning the opposite rail but I didn't think about that being used with weight forward and then the opposite when weight back. Also I tried to trim the nose for speed on swells but it sounds like I may need to get my weight back even further if I want to steer better. Next time, I'll be a bit more drastic in my moving forward and back and expect a little less control overall.

juandoe

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 05:14:15 PM »
I typically ride well forward in the board and lean on the non-paddle side rail to try and keep straight.  I find I have to do this with the Pin as well.   

I would suggest riding well forward of the middle.  It looks a little strange coming from a regular board.

http://www.star-board-sup.com/2010/products/boards/board_k15.php

Mcnally78

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 08:18:46 PM »
I have a k15 and agree that it is very fast, especially on flat water. I find that the board needs to be trimmed out correctly to really fly. I stand a bit forward when it's flat and then slowly move back depending on the conditions. It doesn't react like a surf board when you sink one of the rails. It handles more like a kayak. You do need to weight the opposite rail a little. I changed the fin on the board to the Curtis hatchet style fin. It works great and has more lateral surface area than the stock one. In the wind I find that the rails of the board are much higher than other boards. This gives some slight handling issues you need to over compensate for. That means sometimes a lot more paddling on e one side vs the other. Hope some of that helps a little. The more you use it, the more it all become pretty natural. You don't have to even think about it after a while.

Easy Rider

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 12:15:16 PM »
As others have said - the K15 is more Kayak than surfboard.  Lean left to go right, etc.
I too have had to figure out 'the dance' - moving WAY forward in windy conditions has helped me.
I also agree with the use of the Curtis "hatchet" race fin. 
Much more surface area.

Keep trying - it is a great board.

Easy Rider is the name of my store in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
My name is Warren Currie . . . and we SUP Surf indoors . . . in a shopping mall!

paddledaddy

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 11:14:31 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I will also check into the curtis hatchet race fin. My K-15 has a small fin box, I think newer ones come with a regular size fin box. I hope the Curtis fin will fit the smaller box. I have been using a 9.75"Greenough 4a which completely fills the box and adds some more stability than the original foil fin. I also wonder how it would respond with some kind of small fin in the center box that is on mine? I guess I have some experimetning to do.

juandoe

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 05:20:21 PM »
I have the short fin box as well.  The curtis is too long.  May be able to cut it down and redrill it.  It would be close though.  I have one I am going to try it on but haven't had the time.  I was able to shoehorn a Rainbow Patterson bamboo

http://rainbowfins.bizeconnect.com/?mainURL=/store/item/31ggi/Chuck_Patterson_SUP_fins/CWP_10_0_Race_Bamboo.html

in there but I had to Dremel the corners off the front. 

Mcnally78

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 07:15:44 PM »
I cut my Curtis hatchet fin down and drilled a new hole for the screw. It works great on my k 15. I would also recommend the g-10 version of the fin. I just got one the other day, and it is quite a bit stiffer than normal model. The only problem is double the $.  I use that on a bunch of my boards for flat water use.

juandoe

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 09:20:00 PM »
I don't really see the reason for the stiffer fin.  With a 70 cm fin at 25 knots and an 11m sail flying a formula board, I get it.  At 5 mph with minimal lateral load and a 10cm moment arm, I don't see where the stiffness is gonna be noticeable.  Of course, I am on flat water and not cruising down wave faces.  All I want is some lateral resistance and the least drag.  I also don't understand what advantage the foil gives you at all in my conditions.  I am pretty sure I have never gained any lift from the fin.  Even coming down a wave, what's the biggest wave a K15 sees and how much does it load up the fin?

Mcnally78

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2010, 09:03:32 PM »
Who is talking about lift???????????? The Regular Curtis fin is a little soft and flexes laterally a little bit. The more expensive g10 material makes the shape very stiff. This can only help in every way, from stability....to less paddle strokes per side. Don,t know were lift was ever thought of. Goodluck with your windsurfing

PonoBill

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Re: Need tips on paddling the K15
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2010, 11:44:25 PM »
Actually all fins generate lift, it's how they work. Seems kind of weird, but it's so. Even unfoiled ones do when they are angled to the direction of travel. that doesn't mean they lift the tail up out of the water, it means they generate a force perpendicular to the direction of travel. When the fin is straight in the water the forces are more or less equal on both sides. When the fin is angled the forces are unbalanced and resulting force pushes the fin to the side, correcting the angle.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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