JimmyStyks sup

[supdawg]

One more quick note and this is to Corran from Imagine "ECO" (lol). You're an idiot! to go and talk smack about another company when your running a big lie of a company is a joke! Have your 250 boards from our same factory been shipped yet? Most of which are going to California! I like to care you take for the environment! Instead of a "Dumb Cartoon" your running on the "save the earth" "future for our kids" band wagon. At least we don't make false claims to try and profit! I  thought that ECO resin wouldn't burn brain cells but apparently I'm wrong! Hey next time your in China at our "ECO" factory give me a call and You can come to my office for a tsingtao Beer! I've attached a claim that touches my heart!

[PonoBill]

Geez, what's that website running on, an Osborne 1?

Striped like a Laird, named to be confused with a Jimmy Lewis, and a little forum PR by a guy channeling Ron Popiel and Hulk Hogan. Impressive.

Why do these guys do all the hard work and knock off the easy parts?

[sylvano]

So, now talking between responsible and educated gentlemen, what is the conclusion?
Has anyone tested those boards?

[aircube]

Man, I should probably keep my mouth shut as I am pretty sure “heythatsmybike” has figured things out long ago, but here’s a few words of advice for nubes buying SUPs, surfboards, windsurfers, kiteboards, etc.

There’s a lot more going on than graphics, price, eco hype, etc in board design.  There are tons of guys trying to break into the SUP market by coming up with a name and popping out boards overseas, which is understandable, I like money as well.  There are two ways guys are breaking into the market: 1) they ship some lifted proven designs overseas and have them copied. (losers and really uncool)  and 2) come up with your own designs by making 100's of prototypes that are catered to pro surfers/SUP'rs and have them hand pick the best of the lot for your lineup.  Have them tweak the rocker, rails and thickness to get it just right and THEN send them to be popped out overseas.   Problem with the second technique is it takes a ton of cash, time and access to Pros and a fantastic testing location.  99% of NUBE companies won't cut it when it comes to real R and D.

A brand like Starboard, Lewis, Naish or Laird will have shapes that will remain in their lineup for several years because, yes, they are that good and they will become classics.  Some smaller eco companies will be changing all of their designs every year, claiming that they are 100times better than last year’s model.  Well if that’s the case, what the f.... were they selling last year? AND who wasted money on it?  If last years were THAT bad, this years models should be a free upgrade!

The advice: I like money, so do you, don't throw it away on something that hasn’t been proven by pro riders in real conditions.  There are guys that are trying to get product out there ASAP to make as much cash in the upswing of this trend.   If you do venture into smaller names of any sort, be SURE to test ride the product prior to buying.  That way you can compare the design and performance to classic, proven designs for the big names.  If you prove to yourself that the nubeboard rides better than one of the big names go nuts, but don’t go in blind, or you’ll be selling it at a huge loss if it sucks.

PeaceOut

[PonoBill]

there's an easier way that doesn't inflame the anger of influential early adopters like the folks on the Zone--yup, that's what you folks are, and any decent marketer understands the importance of either courting you or at least avoiding a bad rep with you. Skip all the R&D, find a decent shaper, have him make you a couple of designs with the understanding that you have repro rights, pay him an extra couple of grand or just buy him lunch and offer a little pie-in-the-sky licensing fee to use their name--your choice. Specify a bunch of recognizably zippy elements--wings, dropped rails, etc.

It'll be an okay board, and 95% of the SUP surfers won't know the difference between a good board and a okay board--me included. And the guys that can tell the difference have such specific preferences that they don't matter.

Sound like a familiar approach? Yes, you'd be a baby Surftech. With Chinese and Vietnamese fab shops still willing to work with anyone that can afford a couple of containers full of boards (and often willing to finance some portion of the deal), it's an easy and safe approach. Don't poach the name, don't poach color schemes. Don't poach designs. You go your own way. 

Why anyone would give traction to folks that will bitch about a new player is beyond me. Blatant knockoffery won't sell enough additional boards to overcome the bad rep.

I would say this: Corran you're barking up the wrong tree criticizing the quality when when you've got boards being made in the same place. But that's just a little tactical error. You have more than enough cred to overcome it. Far better to focus on the obvious elements if you want to skewer these guys, who obviously and richly deserve skewering, if only for being so stupid as to do a lot of difficult things well, and then screw it up by being extremely dishonest in front of a whole bunch of people who can immediately detect it.

[supdawg]

hey good advise "aircube"! your just a little off! This isn't rocket science and yes you should look to see if you are getting good value for your money! There is no need to copy something so simple like a SUP! We also have PRO Surfers and Paddlers working on our designs! I would love someone to show me the board we copied!! I'm a true believer in Technology and this technology is easily accessible! No doubt the Big names have good designs that work well but there isn't a human on earth that can create and or test products better that technology can! If your argument is true than I guess the model "T" is still the best car on the road, I'm sure your still using a Commodore 64 computer to write your posts and I guess you should only buy a car that Mario Andredii designed because he can drive! What the companies created back in the day was no doubt great! but we are in 2010 now! Go see how they do it! Again ask to see there manufacturing facilities! go see who built your big name board! You will be surprised! testing or doing your homework is no doubt a good thing to do before you buy! But endorsing a board with a pro then making it with  the cheapest labor on earth doesn't make for a good board just make for good marketing! We are just here to give you an as good if not better product without having to give your money away to marketing and brain washing!

[Tom]

I thin Bill Foote said it best, "Buy cheap you get cheap."  There is a market for cheap boards and there is a market for quality. They are different markets and you really can't compare the two. I don't think a board manufacturer can offer both, nor should they try.

[aircube]

hey good advise "aircube"! your just a little off! This isn't rocket science and yes you should look to see if you are getting good value for your money! There is no need to copy something so simple like a SUP! We also have PRO Surfers and Paddlers working on our designs! I would love someone to show me the board we copied!! I'm a true believer in Technology and this technology is easily accessible! No doubt the Big names have good designs that work well but there isn't a human on earth that can create and or test products better that technology can! If your argument is true than I guess the model "T" is still the best car on the road, I'm sure your still using a Commodore 64 computer to write your posts and I guess you should only buy a car that Mario Andredii designed because he can drive! What the companies created back in the day was no doubt great! but we are in 2010 now! Go see how they do it! Again ask to see there manufacturing facilities! go see who built your big name board! You will be surprised! testing or doing your homework is no doubt a good thing to do before you buy! But endorsing a board with a pro then making it with  the cheapest labor on earth doesn't make for a good board just make for good marketing! We are just here to give you an as good if not better product without having to give your money away to marketing and brain washing

I may be off a little,  but I do know that if a rockerline is changed even just a millimeter here and there, it can turn a magic board into a piece of dung.  BTW, I well aware of who pops out the large name brands and thats cool with me as long as the shapes are legit.

You are off a little as well if you think that board design is simple.  Yea, anyone can design a board to stand on and paddle, but let's see you build one that consistentley wins races or one that almost never pearls on a wave face in all kinds of conditions.  (without lifting someone else's design)  Heck there are TONS of surfboards and SUPs on China marketing sites that you don't even have to put any effort or R&D into.  Just email or phone em' up and order a couple of shipping containers of China product number XYZ123.  You just never know what your going to get unless you try and compare brand x to well known brands.  I'm just saying that you could easily waste your cash on a SUP that floats and has pretty paint but thats about it.

[supdawg]

Tom, Good point but unfortunately what you and the general public don't know is that the cheap and expensive stuff comes out of the same factories and in many cases out of the same molds and presses. since I have offices in China and a Chinese trading Co. www.asiatona.com I see it all! I have seen and have pictures of the top brand snow boards coming out of the same presses as the "wal-mart" boards. I could go on and on with all the brand and products I have seen and manufacture from the same factories.  And if you look at the picture I posted above, the orange striped "race" board of "Imagines" its from the same factory as ours beside it. Using the same CNC machine and staff and materials! again the world is fooled by marketing and name brands! We WILL have a lot of people pissed off at us only because no one wants to know the truth and feel suckered! For all you SUP know-it-alls go do your home work and find out the number of brands that are coming out of "Cobras" factory in Thailand! You will really look stupid when you find out the companies you think are Sh$# are being made from the same Thai guy as your BIG NAME you paid so much for!

[supdawg]

"Aircube", I agree with you totally!

[jdmotes]

 Wow guys...  All of this is making me feel "pretty good" about my Nah Skwell's (which are manufactured by Advanced Hull Dynamics/Tridenn in Tunisia North Africa)     Later,   JD

[Boludo]

I gotta admit, I've enjoyed reading this even though it feels a bit like a soap opera.  supdawg, you made some big mistakes by the comments you made.  Unfortunately this could hurt you a bit.  As a business man, I know the ways of presenting and defending yourself without making yourself foolish.  Corran also kicked himself down a few notches in my book as well.  On the bright side, you made a good point with the Model T example, it actually gave me a good laugh.  That is a much better way of defending yourself or product as opposed to bad mouthing.  Anyways, thanks for the free entertainment!

[diesel]

Performance is all about the shape of the board.  Shapers are artists and have spent many years to learn what makes a surfboard perform.  Surfers who understand this will pay more to get a board that performs.  The average SUP buyer probably does not care that much so they just need a board that they can paddle around.  If they can get that first board for cheaper then they are stoked.  I am sure if Surfdawg had a good shaper that had shaped his designs he would say who it is.  Why wouldn't you?  I would recommend that you state the shapers who shaped the originals because it is an importatnt fact. 
By the way,there is nothing wrong with making generic SUP boards.  They are good enough for the average non-discriminating consumer.  Guys who want specific shapes from proven shapers will get thier boards too.  They will seek the good boards out.  No need to bash the generic shapes if they are a good price.

[HeyThatsMyB1ke]

Established brands are often in a better position to offer quality in the fine details. The true tale is likely found in the company's customer service record and warranty department.

[surf monkey]

You guys making my old RON HOUSE look a little better.

Thanks