anyone looked into specifics of insurance needed for SUP rental biz?

[JeffBach]

Hi all
I've been working the idea of starting a SUP rental and lesson business here in Madison, WI.  After all, flatwater markets are where its going to be at right?  I'm here in Madison in a very flatwater market.  So I called a boat rental shop and offered to buy him lunch in exchange for his perspective on running a boat rental business, thinking his experience could apply quite well to SUP rentals.  By the way, Wingra Boats is a great place.  Tyler, the owner, is a great guy.  If you are ever in Madison, his shop is the place to go for canoe and kayak rentals.

To use a public space (e.g. city park boat landing) one needs a vendor permit.  To get a vendor permit one needs to show proof of insurance.  New policies for new activities are apparently quite hard to come by in an affordable way.  Costs are big enough right now to be a show stopper for my business idea.

Has anyone worked through these waters yet?

In a related way - have any of the manufacturers given any thought as to how they are going to introduce a new sport to a new group of people in a far away land?  Naish, Blane Chambers and others: Are you guys thinking that people are just going to pop into the local big box, buy a board untested and untried and go hop in the water?  I am curious how you think that people are going drop the relatively big bucks on a sport they have never tried without any sort of "try before you buy" program?

In other words, how are the manufacturers going to work around the problem I outlined above? Who is going to buy your boards, start a rental biz and roll them out into the general public and start creating/educating the market, if no one can afford the costs of doing business?  Or is there a fleet of sales reps at the ready to do free promo demos, etc.?

Yes right now I am a bit frustrated at big brother's requirements......

[surfcal]

Because this is a business related question, PM me.
 BOB

[noworrieshawaii]

I was just talking to a client who has a home in Tahoe... She said people were SUPing there... Now thats some flat (cold) water...

[PonoBill]

There's always a way Jeff. Usually the simplest thing is to sit down with whoever sell the insurance and ask them to be creative. You might, for instance, have to buy a canoe or Kayak or two to add to the fleet. People rent windsurfers, surfboards, all kinds of odd stuff, mostly in public places that require insurance. I wouldn't focus on the stand up paddleboard aspect, I'd focus on water toys. Keep it simple for the folks.

[JeffBach]

#1 - To be clear, I have not yet explicitly discussed this with an insurance agent.  So I am not talking factually. I am talking "worriedly" if that is a word.  I hope I am wrong and the friction involved in starting a SUP rental biz is easily overcome.

After sleeping on it, I'm seeing this as an issue that can likely be worked around for me at my small level.  I remain an optimist.  PB is right usually there is a way.

As much as I dislike big brother interfering in business, I have to admit that some efforts at policing public property are reasonable. 

So the big picture for the growth of this sport in the USA, has become MUCH more interesting in light of what I am learning. 

I see my little problem here in a poky backwater becoming a HUGE problem for manufacturers, as they try to sell into flatwater markets across the inland USA (no offense to salties and the non-USA crowd).

As much as I like this sport, I have not yet purchased a board.  BUT I have borrowed boards and used them just to see how each board feels.  I want to test drive and find the one that feels right. There still is not a way to do that here in Madison area, which is what got me thinking about it in the first place.

My curiosity/concern is just how the manufacturers are thinking this through.  I see a fairly large network of grassroots rental businesses as the most likely way to introduce people to the sport.  Ultimately this act of renting creates the market and gets people interested enough to go buy what is still an expensive new water toy.  After all, even the high volume made in China boards are still hundreds of dollars, that is still a high enough cost to make people stop and think.

If the grassroots set of small rental businesses encounters friction in the form of high insurance costs or unavailable insurance and so can not get the vendor permit to use public property, THIS is a BIG problem.  To me anyway.

Hopefully big brother lives only here in Madison, WI. and the rest of the inland USA is a bit more small biz friendly.

[ChiBUSUP]

 PM sent

[Grayman]

Hey Jeff--talk to an insurance agent and get a policy that makes sense.  Yes its going to cost money and require a personal investment, but if you have a good plan and there is a market, this is a small price to pay for the rewards you will reap.  Dont let red tape get in the way and dont push the issue onto the manufacturers.  if you want to make it happen, go do it and enjoy the risk and rewards.

[JeffBach]

Hi grayman

The risks and rewards and sweat equity part I understand.  I was thinking along the lines of what other recreational category manufacturers do with retailers.  In some instances, the manufacturer and their local retailer have a coop arrangement for advertising and marketing.  With manu $$ added to the local retailers dollars, there is more available to go out and promote and create interest and make a market.  It looks to me like SUP manu cos. are generally not big enough or staffed to do this sort of thing.  It seems to me they are in their infancy when it comes to understanding a market that goes beyond sunny CA and HI and relatively low volume sales.

imo, if manufacturers want to turn their inventory this summer in new markets (e.g. all of the inland USA) I am thinking that it is in their best interests to get things up to scale when it comes to making the public aware that this sport exists.  Without something at scale in local markets, SUP is going to sputter along in 1 and 2's, which is not going to get inventory moving very much.

To me this is a fascinating issue.  Where does a SUP fit in a retail flatwater market?  Paddlesports retailers will likely stock some, but the canoe/kayak crowd is not quite right for buying SUP.  The Pilates/fitness crowd is a better fit demographically, but how to sell a SUP in a yoga/Pilates room?  You don't.  Those fitness folks interested in SUP go somewhere else and try it.  Where is that somewhere else?  How does the fitness crowd find that other place?  Who pays for the newspaper ad or the salesman's time? I do if I want reward to happen for me.  But...the manufacturers can't just sit on their hands and hope everyone else does the hard stuff. Making boards is easy.  Getting a sale to me is the hard part.

I kind of see this as 500 penguins on the edge of the ice waiting for the first one to go in.  We all have been told that SUP is going to explode, but this has always been a vague arm wave about how fun it is.  Now is the time for specifics and not very many people have any including myself.....not yet anyway. 

Interesting times
Jeff

[uglysupper]

I know of someone who works with an insurance company that, I believe, deals specifically with what you're talking about. PM sent.
EDIT- e-mail sent.

[robcasey]

You might check out the American Canoe Association that has affordable insurance  for kayaking and canoe orgs and instructors. We used their insurance on a surf kayaking comp and it worked out well. 

http://www.americancanoe.org/

[StandUpVirgin]

Hi Jeff,
  I too am trying to start a SUP tour and rental business. So far I am working with a kayak tour company and a surfshop rental gig, trying to piggyback on their coverage to make things legit. It's still frustrating and seemingly cost prohibative to try and go it alone.
  If you find any leads I would love to share,

Thanks SupV.

[PonoBill]

Hi grayman

The risks and rewards and sweat equity part I understand.  I was thinking along the lines of what other recreational category manufacturers do with retailers.  In some instances, the manufacturer and their local retailer have a coop arrangement for advertising and marketing.  With manu $$ added to the local retailers dollars, there is more available to go out and promote and create interest and make a market.  It looks to me like SUP manu cos. are generally not big enough or staffed to do this sort of thing.  It seems to me they are in their infancy when it comes to understanding a market that goes beyond sunny CA and HI and relatively low volume sales.

Actually, for sure Starboard and probably Naish have demo programs where entrepreneurs who are not surfing retailers can get equipment and other support inexpensively. I suspect the manufacturers are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to seed the inland business. If I were interested in trying something like this I'd be talking to them. They are pretty easy to approach, it's not like you're trying to talk with the CEO of General Electric.

A also wouldn't head off in this direction without the ability to sell products. Even non-authorized dealer (storefront) programs usually allow some sales. Don't be surprised that your efforts generate competition. I've been amazed at how fast SUP equipment sales proliferated in Hood River, OR.

[JeffBach]

Hi all

Nice breakthrough on Friday - Dana Cagen at Sports Insurance has some pretty decent and affordable small biz insurance packages that he is willing to write for new paddleboard businesses.  He thought that the package he typically offered would fit what most City and County park outfits are looking for as part of granting a vendor permit.

Dana is in Hawaii. phone = 808-271-4508 dana.cagen@sportsinsurance.com.  Seemed like a nice guy over the phone. His other office is in (of all places) Montreal.  The strangest office pairing I've come across.

My options have become more limited - one of my friends here in Midwest SUP - Gary Stone - has gone live with his latest adventure www.paddleboardspecialists.com.  I think Gary's a great guy. I am proud to know him.  He is also a monster (in a good way) in the windsurfing world, with WAAAY more resources at his disposal for SUP than what I can muster. I can't compete with him in my local area.  Hopefully I can join him

[stillwater]

Hey Jeff - Just got my renewal notice for my insurance for my SUP business in Tahoe. My policy is for guide/outfitter which covers rentals, lessons, tours & events. There is some inland marine language for the boards but I am covered with my clients for liability if something goes wrong. Its running about $1500 for the year. It may cost more in future once gross receipts start going up. The main things I had to provide was a copy of a Release of Liability form my clients sign before they paddle out, a Health & Safety Plan, Business License, & a gross estimate of my earnings. Let me know if need more info or contacts.

Stillwater

[PonoBill]

Dana Cagen? I'm pretty sure he used to own part of Kanaha Kai--the Starboard and Hotsails Maui shop near Kanaha. If so, you're right, nice guy.