Design guide...

[noa]

It's time for me to admit that i'm a total design idiot. well almost. and i imagine that many are in the same boat. so i suggest to the wise and knowledgable of this forum to spread some of their insight, because knowledge not shared is knowledge lost (did that convince you ?). but seriously, it would be great to look at a board and be able to understand how it will behave on the water by observing the shape. it would be fantastic to go to a shaper and tell him what shape you want for certain conditions and know what you're talking about. admitedly this is a very vast subject that can be explored in great depths but maybe a general explanation of some of it's facets and how they affect our stand up boards could be created somewhere on this site. something that breaks things down into categories and explains how different designs work. for example ; rail shapes, scoop/rockers, outlines, tail shapes, concaves, deck shapes, and of course the most important fin options. what do you guys think ? 

[Blane Chambers]

Hi noa,
The challenge to this is to get an accurate discription of what a board will do with the things you mentioned really depends on how its all blended together, the shapers view points and the person riding it and what they "FEEL".       

There are general things people think that make a board harder to lay out a nice sharp turn like a really buoyant, boxy, full rail,  BUT it does not mean you can't make a rail like that rip a beautiful, hard turn  if the shaper knows how to blend other things into that board...    Surfboards are give and take.    One design contour change completely affects another...   Its a good blend that equals a good working board.

This would be a good time to start another topic I was thinking about doing regarding surfing ability and how it's the most important aspect to getting the most out of any board....   Surfing ability is always the number one thing to make any board work well yet it seems to be the thing a lot people focus on the least by trying to "BUY" skill in the form of a board...   

Aloha,
Blane




www.paddlesurfhawaii.com

[Rand]

This would be a good time to start another topic I was thinking about doing regarding surfing ability and how it's the most important aspect to getting the most out of any board....   Surfing ability is always the number one thing to make any board work well yet it seems to be the thing a lot people focus on the least by trying to "BUY" skill in the form of a board...   

True enough about skill, but I think there is more to it even than that.  I think we have all experienced that in many sports we have been cruising along with our given experience and ability, and got on a piece of gear that has opened it all up for us, just set the learning curve into overdrive, and put an XL smile on the face.  That experience keeps us looking.  It is not that a better rider could not rip better on a board that a lesser rider just "upgraded" from.  They could, and that will always be true.  I think it is all about finding the gear that keeps you advancing, and feeling stoked on your level.  Plus, experimenting with gear is just....fun. 

[Honolii]

This is why I find myself be skeptical on some equipment reviews. Unless it is done very objectively, such as comparing to another equipment, it is all relative. Everybody is different. A board may be stable for one person, but for another it is unstable. Other variables (water conditions, wind, experience, etc.) come into play also. I feel the same way with design aspects. I feel the rider is the number one factor in how things work. 30 years in the water and I hear of the guys always talking the techno jibber-jabber about their newest custom secret dimension board, with the newest new fangled hi-tech fins that make you Slateresqe, etc. yet, they still surf on it like thay have been with their other boards for 20 years, going straight down the line, same line, no real turns. Getting the most out of your equipment to your max ability is what will help in deciding what design factor is good for you.
I like to stay with a board and try to get it so wired and maximize it's potential before getting a new board.
1) I can't afford new boards all the time and this helps me in getting exactly what I am looking for, 2) Less blaming the equipment. You have to be honest with yourself. Does the board really suck or is it you?, 3) You have a better understanding of your ability and what you'd like your next board to do. This will help tremendously when communicating with a shaper in helping to convey what you want.  This is one of the reasons why I have held back in getting a custom board from Blane. I feel I am still learining a lot and want to really know how my current board works in order for me to give specific details on how I want my next board.
I'm only trying give objective advice here in helping to decide what design aspects you'd like to change or try, in hoping you don't have to go through  a lot of frustration, time and money in finding what works for you.  That should ALWAYS be the bottom line, what works for YOU, regardless of trends, fads, ability, etc. If you are having fun and enjoy what you have, who cares what others think about if you don't have the latest and greatest.
Mind you all, I do enjoy reading about everyone's ideas, experience, reviews and so on. That's why I love this site. Lots of POSITIVE insight, feedback, sharing ideas with very minimum wading throught the muck. 
Aloha,
Honolii

[river]

The best thing about new gear for me is that it motivates me to get out there MORE and that inturn means more fun.  I have like 5 SUP boards and am always looking at buying more.  Dont even ask how many paddles I have...

[Tony DaKine]

Although I agree that the rider is the biggest part of the equation - Kelly Slater could surf an ironing board better than I could surf a custom board shaped by the best shaper on the planet.

However, with regular sufboards you only have to worry about paddling into the wave and riding it. You don't have to worry about what the board is doing in between. Stand Up boards are a little different. Because the dimensions and shape affect stability it is important to have a general idea what shapes and dimensions will do to a board.

I've gone through a number of boards now and I view it as a learning process. The boards I ride this winter aren't going to be the boards I ride next winter. I buy a couple of boards for different waves, ride them for a while, keep the ones I really like and sell the ones that I outgrow or just don't like. Buy new ones and go throught the process again. It's expensive but I'm single and if I didn't do this, I'd probably spend my money on booze, birds, and fast cars - the rest I would squander. 

[Blane Chambers]

This would be a good time to start another topic I was thinking about doing regarding surfing ability and how it's the most important aspect to getting the most out of any board....   Surfing ability is always the number one thing to make any board work well yet it seems to be the thing a lot people focus on the least by trying to "BUY" skill in the form of a board...   

True enough about skill, but I think there is more to it even than that.  I think we have all experienced that in many sports we have been cruising along with our given experience and ability, and got on a piece of gear that has opened it all up for us, just set the learning curve into overdrive, and put an XL smile on the face.  That experience keeps us looking.  It is not that a better rider could not rip better on a board that a lesser rider just "upgraded" from.  They could, and that will always be true.  I think it is all about finding the gear that keeps you advancing, and feeling stoked on your level.  Plus, experimenting with gear is just....fun. 

Agreed and what I mean is a better understanding of basic technique to help better any novice to mid level surfer to really progress to a point where using the boards intended features is possible.      You'll see when I do the post...   

Aloha,
Blane



www.paddlesurfhawaii.com

[stoneaxe]

PonoBill's big board test fest may help some.
http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog/2007/11/17/board-test-participants-so-far/

It will still be subjective but he is looking for a broad range of volunteers to test boards...what's good for the pro will most definitely not work the same for me. Wish I could get out there for the test. Not too many beginners with balance problems testing no doubt. Not that I will be looking for another board anytime soon....I know...sacrilege..

Has Bill talked to you Blane?

[Tony DaKine]

Back to the original threadstarters question. Here's a link to a real basic design guide for regular surfboards:

http://www.killerdana.com/killerdana/dept.asp?s_id=0&dept_id=2210

I'll caveat it by saying that there's seems to be more to SUBs than making a bigger surfboard.

Knowledge of design basics is a good thing but I always defer to the knowledge of a shaper - one who actually SUPs.

Best bet is to tell a shaper your height and weight, honest appraisal of skill level, waves you will be surfing and what compromises you are willing to make, ie speed vs manueverability vs stability vs ease of paddling, etc. and let him do his magic.

As for fins: wetsand has a good fin guide but again it eventually boils down to individual preference.

[noworrieshawaii]

Hey Tony... thanks for the link.... perfect visual guide for basic concepts.

[Tree]

So many choices so little time. As a large person what works for most, sinks for me. An old friend told me who cares what your board looks like as long as it works for you. After all, isn't it all about fun?

[surfpainter]

Honolii...you are exactly right about when you said some boards may be stable for some then not for others (me ) The Bongo 10' is a cool looking board and your hard earned money is hopefully well spent. It seems we all are gambling ( to a certain extent) on equipment on this great sport, still in its infancy. Sorry if I was a bit quick to judge your investment....

[Honolii]

Surfpainter,
No harm bruddah! I wasn't implying on your feedback on my review at all.  I am very good with constructive criticism and have always welcomed it.  It's the best way I learn. Tell me straight  up how you feel and I will respect you  and your integrity no matter  my difference of opinion.
I have been having fun on the Bonga, but as of the last week I've been missing it. Weather and water condition has been bad on this side of the Big ISland, windy, river run outs, rainy. Hope you are having some wherever you are.
Aloha,
Honolii

[footemaui]

"SHAPING IS THE ART OF COMPENSATION"

[Nate Burgoyne]

Surfing ability is always the number one thing to make any board work well yet it seems to be the thing a lot people focus on the least by trying to "BUY" skill in the form of a board...   

True enough about skill, but I think there is more to it even than that.  I think we have all experienced that in many sports we have been cruising along with our given experience and ability, and got on a piece of gear that has opened it all up for us, just set the learning curve into overdrive, and put an XL smile on the face.

It's interesting that this topic has come up. I've recently switched from a full nose 10' swallow tail that I've been riding for over a year to a 9'6" pointy nose diamond tail, and all of this has been on my mind. There's tons to say about making the transition, but what I wanted to share on this thread was...on the new board, I was having trouble bottom turning how I used to with my previous board. I wondered if it was the equipment or my skill. So, I called the shaper to ask him about it, and with some insights into techniques that the team riders are using to ride similar boards, I had the problem solved in my very next session. It turns out that my skill was the lacking element. My  recommendation is, if there's a skill that you just can't figure out on the equipment you have, before you put your current board up on Craigslist, check with your shaper or with other stand up surfers for some insights. I think that in most cases, as it was with me, it's a matter of technique.

All that said, I have to say that the new board is a lot of fun and has taken me places I couldn't previously go.