Speed difference between race and allroundboards

[Jeroensurf]

I have seen lots of pics of full carbon Hobies, Barks, Starboard, F15 and other racing machines, but can anyone tell me how big there (speed) advantage is on inland (flat) water compared to allroundboards?

I,m serious thinking about doing the 11 cities competition in Holland (where i live) in september but don,t have a raceboard as they are very rare/not seen yet over here.
Its a  5 day competition with 40-55km a day padling (check for the 2009 site: http://www.supfryslan.nl/)  on inland waters, mainly canals and lakes. No waves but wind and maybe small chop from any thinkable direction.
Paddling such distances i don,t want to make it any harder as necesary 
I get an Coreban 11.6 Cruiser and already have a very heavy 12foot allroundboard but how is there speed compared with a "real" racy 12-15foot board?

[Dwight (DW)]

The paddler is way more important than the board. You can spend thousands of dollars and still not go any faster than someone on a stock surfboard.

I have lots of real world experience with this, racing in the Coastal Urge races  

For example, I know my all carbon custom race boards are faster than many other production race boards, and all surfing boards, because I have done back to back testing.

But come race day, I've watched all kinds of people pass me on stock Laird and C4 surfing models  

People with kids riding on the nose pass me  

People with zero paddle skills, fly past me beating the crap out of their rails.  

People who learned to SUP only one day prior to entering the race pass me  

Kids fly past me  

The young never get tired  


But, I know my boards are performing great and allowing me to have the most fun down winders I can possibly do.  

Paddle hard, have fun, don't worry about the board.

[JC50]

A SUP stage race? Cool.

DW is right, fast paddlers are fast on anything.

However, a 5-day stage race at 40-55 km/day is different than an inshore 5-12 mile race.

Considering the terrain, I would go for a pure displacement hull at 16-19 feet, depending on your size/wt.

For a marathon, I'd want a board that can carry speed and glide, glide, glide. Doesn't look like much (any?) opportunity for planing in that race. Shorter planing-hull boards can surely keep up and may go even faster with a stronger paddler, but the difference in energy to keep that speed up is significant. Stop paddling the long displacement-hull and the board will continue to cruise right along. Do that on a shorter planing-hull and the board just stops.

[Reef Rocket]

Sounds like a great event and if no one has a real racey board then like DW said you can without a doubt know that it comes down to the paddler.  Also sounds like a great business opportunity for someone who makes or knows someone who makes displacent hull racers in Western Europe. Hope to see some pics of the event when it happens.

[greatdane]

I've extensively GPS tested every board I've owned or helped test.  Obviously a 12'6" race board is going to be faster than a 12'6" surf board with the same paddler/conditions.

And a 14 or 16 or 18 foot board is going to be faster too.  The difference in avg. speed between my 12' surf board and my 18' race board on dead flat water is about 1.0 mph.  (4.6 mph vs. 5.6 mph for a one hour course) Over the course of a 5 day race that could be major.  But if you are not in it for the over all victory, then don't stress & just have fun on what you have.

Too bad it's not like NASCAR and every one has the same gear, so it could truly be ability vs. ability.  

On the front page of my blog, there are two pictures of me surfing and racing (winning) on the same crappy $600 board... so....

Good luck!

www.paddlesurfnorthwest.blogspot.com

[Jeroensurf]

1mile p/h ...that suprises me a bit.
From all i read i thought the difference would be  a lot bigger.
For 1 mile i,m not gonna buy a new board and rather stay on my allrounder.
Winning.... i rather go for finnishing it
Thanx anyway for giving some perspective on it!

[DavidJohn]

It's not just about top speed.. It's more about maintaining a high speed.. and feeling fresh at the end rather than buggered.

DJ

[rkuntz]

1 MPH is 20% faster or 20% easier, that's significant multiple days.

[PonoBill]

1 MPH is 20% faster or 20% easier, that's significant multiple days.

Actually 20 percent faster is an almost unbeatable advantage. Consider a closed circuit race of five laps--you'd win by a lap. In a five mile race you'd win by a mile.

In the Hood River race this year I was up against a bunch of twenty- and thirty-something guys in good shape. Some of them weighed less than my leg. In the first race I used my Starboard 12'2" which looks like a typical SUP board but it has straight rails and almost no rocker. I  finished third I think. A somewhat racy board against a bunch of surfboards. I finished about 20 feet ahead of fourth, and probably 100 feet ahead of fifth, in a three mile sprint race. That's less than .1 percent difference.

Next race I used the same board, and everyone had more practice and few better boards. I finished fifth I think.

Next race race people started showing up with racier boards. I switched to my Starboard Point and was able to finish forth or fifth. As the series wore on the competition--both boards and paddlers--got tougher and tougher. I finally uncorked the F18, and finished fourth or fifth.

The paddler didn't change and certainly didn't improve, the competition got better, the only way I could keep up was racier boards. They make a big difference. But they aren't cheap. All depends on how bad you want to win, or at least not get beaten by everyone, and where your resources lie.

On the positive side, once you have a race board, you'll enjoy paddling it all the time.

If you weigh under 200 the Starboard Point would be a pretty fast board for you and should be readily available. Naish also has European distribution, and their 17' is fast. Or you could contact Mark Raaphorst at SIC. I know he took some boards to Holland and I don't think he brought them back. You might be able to pick up a F16 or F18 reasonably.

The newest F16 production boards should be wicked quick. They are being made someplace in Asia and are prepreg CF, autoclaved. Should be light and very strong.

[Jeroensurf]

Point is, i live an 15 minutes cycling from the beach where i stored my stuff and can go by train from my work straight to the beach.
There can I use an Allroundboard most of the days when its not too windy.
When its too windy to sup i go windsurfing, so either way i will have my watertime

Due our big chop and disortedwaves i don,t think you will have a lot of benefit on a raceboard on the sea and won,t use it that much often.
So to use and train with a SUP-raceboard i have to go to lakes that are further away, a bit boring and will cost me a lot more hassle to get to but if the difference is uncomparable big sure i will try to get my hands on one. I,m for sure no podium canidate but neither wanna go for the last place.

The other point is the length of the competition. I don,t know if on such distance you will make a big difference with gear.
5 mile or 50km is a big difference and more about indurance instead of explosive padling (i think), and you will feel pretty much worn out at the end of the day anyway. 
How, is the balance and comfort on a raceboard compared with a standard?
Is that more or less the same, easier, harder?

I will find a contact with Mark Raaphorst anyway.
Thanx for the tip on that Bill.









 

[Shawn Michael]

"Actually 20 percent faster is an almost unbeatable advantage. Consider a closed circuit race of five laps--you'd win by a lap. In a five mile race you'd win by a mile."

I have done the same thing, extensively testing the speed of my ex Jimmy Lewis 12'6 distance and my Bark 18 and F-18 and the difference is 1 mile per hour on the dot for me.

20% is huge.  The mental edge of feeling that you are getting a good glide out of your effort is amazing...or you could look at it like you will have 20% more energy left. 

I dont know if I would have fallen in love with SUP had Joe Bark not made such a fine board...I still remember that first ride....the harder I paddled, the faster I went, flying instead of plowing...what an awesome feeling!!!!

[JC50]

Actually pretty much all the raceboards will do well in rough water, planing or displacement...so I would continue paddling them from the beach for training.

The thing about this 1mph advantage is that near the top speeds that people can paddle, it's not a linear curve of strength/weight to speed. The amount of energy you expend to go that extra 20% will be far less than if you were on a non-race SUP. They are really fun to race, or just paddle along the coast for enjoyment.

But, as stated, they aren't cheap, not at all. They are expensive, so it's all about how much you want to invest. If you're happy with what you've got, no reason you won't enjoy it on a marathon. Best is to just go out someday soon and paddle it for 50K and see how things go.

Good luck & have fun...often some of the best fun is in the training.