Troubled waters and easy steps.

[mikelefty]

This thread makes me yearn for blistering cold winds and waters of winter in New England. Localism at its core is negative and destructive to all those who seek the bounties the ocean provides at a local beach break, be it wind,waves, or consumable's. The biggest factor keeping me from visiting the Islands to spend my hard earned tourist money is not wanting to experience the visceral degree of localism that the Islands reputation seem to have. As a middle aged man who has a large family to feed, and a business to run, the value that the Ocean provides to my overall mental and physical health is to important to me, I consider myself a reasonably skilled water rat; 35 years as a surfer, 3.5years Suping, ex windsurfer, fisherman, hunter. It is too bad things are out of control to the point the local government is deciding the rules, that could be the worst outcome in the future, good luck with that
Come visit my SUP spots this snowy/icey /cold winter, you will have no hassles you will truely appreciate the paradise you live in.

[Blane Chambers]

Just an innocent bystander here but it sounds as if there's A LOT of specific people and key information not mentioned in this thread. How about getting key individuals/reps from all concerning parties and Ho'oponopono this thing out? It doesn't  seem as if there are random people SUP'n Ho'okipa on a daily basis, just the same people from different factions. it shouldn't be that difficult to discern the groups and ask for representatives to meet and discuss how to harmonize the situation. seems the way it's headed right now it's going to be a mostly one-sided decision.

p.s. and I think a private Ho'oponopono and then let the public know the outcome. unless all parties are willing to let ALL information, sensitive or not, be public here on this forum.

in the end, WE ARE ALL ONE.

WELL  SAID........................AND AMEN TO THAT!!!!

Ditto.  Just take care of things right there on the beach...   

[Chan]

First off, this is not a localism issue.   The few forum members involved in creating this mess are going to these breaks INTENTIONALY TO CAUSE PROBLEMS.   They have brought this issue to this forum, posted pictures, wanted it to be public, and have made it our problem.  We then get a nameless “Local” user whose comments mirror some of these guys “private” emails (that we have been cc’ed on) so closely that it defies coincidence.   Then we have the Read Twice, Do Not Delete post.  So, NOW it should be handled privately on the beach?  

We have been asked to help in trying to ease tensions in the surf.  On the other hand you have this group that has become so focused on the photo opportunity and flaming the conflict that they have set aside any care for the sport and are operating out of pure selfishness and ego.

We feel it is our obligation to clarify, beyond any doubt, that we do not support or condone their actions.  

[gotwaves?]

First off, this is not a localism issue.   The few forum members involved in creating this mess are going to these breaks INTENTIONALY TO CAUSE PROBLEMS.   They have brought this issue to this forum, posted pictures, wanted it to be public, and have made it our problem.  We then get a nameless “Local” user whose comments mirror some of these guys “private” emails (that we have been cc’ed on) so closely that it defies coincidence.   Then we have the Read Twice, Do Not Delete post.  So, NOW it should be handled privately on the beach?  

We have been asked to help in trying to ease tensions in the surf.  On the other hand you have this group that has become so focused on the photo opportunity and flaming the conflict that they have set aside any care for the sport and are operating out of pure selfishness and ego.

We feel it is our obligation to clarify, beyond any doubt, that we do not support or condone their actions.  

Chan it sounds like a localism issue when one party says they don't condone so and so's surfing at a particular spot...

That's part of the problem with this being made public, you either tell everyone everything (specifics) that's going on or you make it a one-sided argument which in turn breeds more hidden contempt. If you continue to keep it public may I suggest you guys get the people that asked you to ease the tensions to come on here and post their thoughts and experiences themselves. hopefully that opens up dialogue from the opposing side too.  The way things are going it doesn't sound as if tensions are "easing."

[Weasels wake]

We have been asked to help in trying to ease tensions in the surf.

I also have no horse in this race, being stuck on the left coast of the mainland, but I'm very fimilar with Hookipa and Maui water in general.

So I have one question, don't really need to know the names, but who is the person/people asking for the help?

Sounds to me like somebody who wants somebody else to fix a problem that they have, and for some reason, don't feel like taking care of the situation by themselves. 
And that in itself, is the real problem.

[Chan]

That's part of the problem with this being made public, you either tell everyone everything (specifics) that's going on or you make it a one-sided argument which in turn breeds more hidden contempt. If you continue to keep it public may I suggest you guys get the people that asked you to ease the tensions to come on here and post their thoughts and experiences themselves. hopefully that opens up dialogue from the opposing side too.  The way things are going it doesn't sound as if tensions are "easing."

Hi gotwaves, welcome to the forum.

That is an interesting twist.  The very people who are intentionally causing problems and using our forum as a vehicle to spitefully continue personal conflicts and incite anger are the ones who have chosen to make them public here.  

I have a better suggestion.  Now that they have used this forum to make their actions public, against our wishes and without our consent, let’s have them own up and apologize, publicly and without anonymity, as that was how they began this.

Once honesty has been returned to this process, then healing might begin.

[Chan]

We have been asked to help in trying to ease tensions in the surf.

I also have no horse in this race, being stuck on the left coast of the mainland, but I'm very fimilar with Hookipa and Maui water in general.

So I have one question, don't really need to know the names, but who is the person/people asking for the help?

Sounds to me like somebody who wants somebody else to fix a problem that they have, and for some reason, don't feel like taking care of the situation by themselves.  
And that in itself, is the real problem.

What I said was:

We aren’t in a position to make any rules and we never have.  I think if you read the thread more carefully you will see that.  What we are doing is informing the SUP community of an ongoing process which was started by Dave Kalama, after a conversation he had with Brian Keaulana concerning the problems that they are seeing.   We are working on an article detailing some of the work that they are doing.  It has involved interviews and meetings with top members of the SUP and surf community.  The sole purpose of this process is to establish an environment where riders can return to fun in their respective sports.  

They have asked for our help and we are doing all that we can to assist.  Of course what they are asking for is not law, nor legally binding, but there is a long standing tradition in the surf of abiding by the word of mouth regulations of the senior members at these breaks.  

It will be disheartening if some members of the SUP community decide not to help with this, but at least we will have done our best to inform.

The purpose of writing the article is to ease tensions.  During the research process, I learned that this forum was being used by a small, unrepresentive group to intentionally heighten this conflict.  That, we do not support.

[gotwaves?]

That's part of the problem with this being made public, you either tell everyone everything (specifics) that's going on or you make it a one-sided argument which in turn breeds more hidden contempt. If you continue to keep it public may I suggest you guys get the people that asked you to ease the tensions to come on here and post their thoughts and experiences themselves. hopefully that opens up dialogue from the opposing side too.  The way things are going it doesn't sound as if tensions are "easing."

Hi gotwaves, welcome to the forum.

That is an interesting twist.  The very people who are intentionally causing problems and using our forum as a vehicle to spitefully continue personal conflicts and incite anger are the ones who have chosen to make them public here.  

That's part of my point, to which posts and people are you referring to? They aren't on this thread, at least not clearly defined as such. If they posted on other sections of the forum you can't expect the general public to discern which posts and people apply to this subject. I believe it is your responsibility and in your best interests (as a host for a sensitive public issue ) to clearly lay out the situation as you know it. As it stands now, it's a very one-sided argument filled with circumstantial evidence. All we have to go on is Byron's posts, and the guy doesn't sound like he's trying to start any trouble.

As you've said before,  there are others that wanted you guys to make it public and ease the tensions, well where are they? Until then, you folks unfortunately will be the target of most people's ire and maybe later, even from the side you are supporting.

[Chan]

The posts and pictures were by SUPsonic and supmaui.

It is interesting to me that the only mention of  ire that we have ever encountered has been from two new users who have anonymously logged on to this forum using fake email addresses to support the very forum members who are at issue here.  

As mentioned earlier, we deleted the posts that were intended to aggravate this situation as we did not want to be part of advancing that type of spiteful agenda.  To be clear, no one else asked us to do that.  That came from us.  

To gotwaves and Local, if you wish to be considered in these matters, identify yourselves.

[gotwaves?]

Chan why do you think I am supporting either side? And why would you lump Local and I into the same topic? Local and I are saying two totally different things. Take what you want from my posts but in no way am I taking a side. Just calling it as it is laid before me. Who am I to chime in? nobody. Just a person of the public offering an opinion into a public discussion. but you know what they say about opinions...

IMHO the burden of responsibility falls on you folks for taking it upon yourselves to "mediate" this situation. However, it seems your position of mediator is, and has been compromised as you have clearly chosen a side from the beginning of this thread. I know it sounds like I am choosing a side because of my critiques of you but that is NOT my objective. This situation could leave a precedent for how other well known breaks handle the same situation. I don't envy your position but I definitely applaud your efforts in trying to keep the peace and in helping  our sport grow.


Sincerely,

Jon Chong

in the end...

[Chan]

We have two roles in this, neither is the role of mediator.  One role is forum moderator, and in that role we do have a very clear position.  We will not knowingly allow this site to be used to incite conflict in the surf.  Clearly, we are not “all one” in this.  We have asked the forum members who have participated in this activity to apologize and hope that they will do so and back up their apology with action.

Our second role is that of reporter.  We do not surf these breaks and are not part of this conflict, however, we do hope that our article will provide useful information for all the breaks on Maui, and hope that it helps in establishing a precedent of self regulation at all breaks.  Ultimately, that is a goal that we do still hope is attainable, but if not, that is what we will report.

[pray4surf]

Can someone explain a few things for me.

1) Why aren't the people in the water handling this?  People get kicked out of line ups every day, from Queens to Pipe if you are getting in the way and don't belong/or are being dangerous at a spot you are asked/told to leave simple.  WHy isn't this happening in this situation?  Which leads to the more important question

2) Who are the guys that are causing the hassle?  I'm not talking names but what is their skill/experience level?  did they surf there before on longboards or did they just start coming out on a SUP?  Are they just being wave hogs or are they a safety hazard?

3) If these guys are skilled enough to be out there what is the issue?  Is it that just that they are on SUP's and getting a lot of waves?  IF they aren't skilled enough let the ocean give them some beatings and take care of the issue for everyone.  But if they are skilled enough to be out there on big/good days why should any surfer tell  someone else where they can and can't surf. 

[supmaui]

Aloha All,

First of all let me tell you a little bit about me. I am 42 years old and have 5 grommets. I joined this forum I think about or a little over 2 years ago. At first it was too learn about this new sport of SUP to me. My original username was ByronMaui but with issues my account was changed to SUPmaui. I learned a lot on this forum and digested it fast. Pure stoke at the time.

I started then posting pics of our sessions. After pics I delved into posting videos of our sessions. Once my son started taking up the sport I started making video’s of his progression to share. I thought we were all stoked about that and I always asked if there was an issue to please let me know. Not one email to say “Hey don’t do that” so I proceeded to share with the world pics and vids of my son and everyone that was in the water. We all were having a good time and people came to this forum to see themselves and share the stoke which was cool. In the whole process I had met a lot of people, shared the stoke, housed them, met new friends and all that good stuff. Boy SUP is fun and that is my number #1 priority period.

Now I find out that these latest vids or pics were offensive. For this I apologize and only wished I had been told directly “Hey please stop posting pics/vids” but that did not happen and that is ok because everyone is busy and things get bypassed. Had I known from the beginning this thread was in part about my son at a particular spot I would have curtailed pics/vids because this is not my party and I am here as a guest.

I shared in my previous post in this thread my feelings and thoughts as a parent. Some of you may not have agreed with my views and that is fine because difference is what makes us all special. I clearly sparked a furor with certain people and this was not my intentions. I had only wished since we live on the same island and have mutual friends that we could have spoken directly about the issue but that did not happen. Sometimes things don’t go as planned so we have to go to plan B.

Since this thread is spinning with opinions, 3rd hand accounts and stuff like that I think it is best to personally find out what the issues are at ground zero and deal with them outside of this forum. I will work with my ohana and others involved to seek out what is the real problem and how do we go from there.

I personally will not report back because it is a local issue and not a internet issue and don’t want to get into a he said she said account. I appreciate all the emails and fun we had on this wonderful forum. I appreciated being a guest at this party and glad to see it grow. The dynamics have changed but at least you all have stoke.

Admin and Chan I ask you one last time please don’t make any attacks towards me or my family because of this post. I hope you will respect this one last request from one local resident to another.

Aloha

Byron

[1tuberider]

.  

If you’re talking about at Ho’okipa, the DLNR regulation does not allow windsurfer’s in the water there if more than 10 surfers are out at any time.  This rule does not apply to SUP at this time.  County ordinance prohibits Surf, Kayak, and Windsurf schools at Ho’okipa.  

In our interviews there have been several firsthand accounts of windsurfing’s early history at Ho’okipa.  Soon after the then new sport’s arrival, and during the period of subsequent meetings, a terrible conflict developed, complete with violence, death threats, and hired personal protection. Eventually state regulations were imposed.  Ultimately, both sides were less than satisfied with the government imposed regulations and the tensions continue, twenty years later.  Many of those involved in this process were part of the first conflagration and are now involved precisely to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.


[/quote]

Then is the problem defining sup as surfing or not?  I can see a huge conflict between windsurfers and surfers or surfers windsurfers and jetskis as being compatible in the same area.  

But why are choices about surf vehicles being an issue.  Do you limit the boogie boarder, surf kayaker, body surfer and so forth because they are not standing on the wave. Or is the issue picking on sup type vehicles because they are not surfing?

Then the next question is who will get to decide is sup surfing.  I am sure you will have problems getting an unbiased board on this one.  Maybe the county should handle it.

[Chan]

If you had informed us of the situation surrounding your photo shoot at Ho’okipa (threats of violence, calls to the police, going out into crowed head high surf with the intent to anger) we would have asked you to leave us out of it.  You did not.  Your actions and postings here created the impression that we support this.  We do not.  Now you have the gall to criticize us for not supporting this activity?  Your request for us to please not attack you or your family:  that is just plain offensive and ludicrous.  I hope that wasn’t supposed to be your apology.