Cold Water - Flat Water Paddling - Wetsuit Solutions?

[Dwight (DW)]

Was thinking of getting the kokatak TROPOS swift entry and having them add a relief zipper...
www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=tse

Does anyone have any experience w/ this drysuit?  Especially compared to their gortex models? 

How about in the surf... would a wetsuit still be preferable for SUPing or do folks that have dry suits tend not to wear their wetsuits as often?

My reasoning for the TROPOS is as follows
1.  Still brethable but not as expensive as gortex (not as breathable either i guess)

2.  does not have built in booty sox so you can either go barefoot or wear surfing booties.

3.  about $375 new but have to add some $$$ for relief zipper

4.   probably only use it for flat water paddling although i may find i like it in the ocean as well.

I don't like the Tropos. I have used the Gore-tex model for 5 years now. This Winter I tried the Tropos because my Gore-Tex suit was getting worn out. I tested the breathability by standing in front of a fan. I could not feel any air coming through the suit and I was instantly sweating heavy in the house. Then I switched to my old Gore-Tex and repeated the test. The fan blew air right through the Gore-Tex and I didn't sweat near as much. I ended up buying a new Gore-Tex suit without booties or pee zipper. My old suit had the pee zipper. There is nothing better than Gore-Tex and with the heavy sweating paddling causes, you really need it.

Also, the Tropos is paper thin and has a light weight brass zipper. The Gore-Tex model is much heavier duty and uses a heavier duty brass zipper.

Wetsuits are fine for me when the water is above 55 and the air above 60. I hate cold, so below that the Drysuit is a must for me.

[photosettle]

Thanks for all the feedback from this post... Much Appreciated.

Shane

[Tree]

what i've never really figured out -- and maybe someone here has -- is getting a hood that works as well with a drysuit as a built-in hood does on a wetsuit.  i'm talking about a real hood, with neck protection, not a beanie or some such.  and what's missing for me is being able to turn my head more than a few degrees w/out feeling like i'm strangling.  ideas, anyone?

There used to be these Bare hoods that had a big neck flap and they weren't to tight and worked really well with the drysuit. The only drawback was that you looked like a serf from olde feudal dark ages days. Back in the rubber Aquala days. We called the guys who wore them Trashbags.   I had one and have warm memories.

[PeteCresswell]

A wetsuit steams up so hot and sweaty even when the air is in the 50's.  Does a dry suit work better or does that trap most of the sweat in as well?

I've got three suits:

- Full neo spring suit
- Bag top/neo bottom 5mm cold water suit
- Kokatat's GoreTex full bag suit with attached socks.

I've been using them all for windsurfing, wave ski paddling, and windsurfing for several years.

My observations:

One of the bag suit's advantages is also a danger: you can layer underneath to achieve various insulations levels.   When paddling, of course, the temptation is to layer thin to minimize overheading.  After a cold-water paddle, I try to make a habit of floundering around in the water until I start feeling that scary chill.   Keeps me calibrated on the insulation thing.

For ease of putting on/taking off, the full bag has no equal.  It is soooooo quick and easy to get in and out probably nobody can fully understand until they've done it.

For surf, I prefer the bag top/neo bottom or the spring suit.   Both give a little bruise protection and you slide through the water a lot better when swimming.    Also, there's an issue with the full bag suit's legs vacuum bagging.   If the crotch gets too low and you wipe out, the legs are vacuum bagged to you such that it's impossible to get to your feet in shallow water and/or difficult to water start when windsurfing... and I'd bet it makes it difficult to re-mount a SUP.

Also, GoreTex's ability to pass water out from the body seems to me tb somewhat oversold.   Yes, if you get sweated up in a GoreTex bag, eventually you'll dry out if you just stand/sit quietly... but the transmissability is totaly inadequate for passing the amount of sweat you generate in, say, an hour of hard paddling.

Bottom line: the full bag suit is easy on/easy off, but not suitable for surf.

Also, for the obsessively-inclined, there's a fault-tolerance issue.   With a bag suit, if it floods (or your under layers just get soaked from sweat or infiltration around the neck/wrists you loose the insulation.

If the bag top/neo bottom is compromised, at least you have a farmer john on.

With the spring suit, it's pretty much bombproof.

Like I said, I have and use all three.   Each one has it's niche.

If I were going to get only one, it would be the bag top/neo bottom or the spring suit - depending on water temp - for ocean use  or the full bag for flatwater (assuming *only* flatwater) paddling.

For multi-use, it would be bag/neo or spring suit.

Last comment: suites designed/sold for windsurfing offer a *lot* more flexibility/ease of movement that a lot of other suits.

[PonoBill]

Neo for rivers for skeletal protection and warmth in that 48 degree snowmelt
Koketat for freeze your ass off weather
everything else it's just boardies and a nice layer of blubber.

[kwhilden]

When kayaking rivers in the winter of the rainy Pacific Northwest, I considered my Kokatat goretext drysuit to be worth it's weight in gold. Yep, it almost costs that much too... but they are incredibly durable. My current suit is at least eight years old and I have used it a LOT, but it is still going strong. I probably would have gone through at least three Tropos suits by now.... portaging through Devil's Club will do that.

But on whitewater rivers, the level of physical exertion is pretty low, so you can usually dress for immersion. The river current does most of the work.

For cold winter flatwater SUP workouts share similarities with sea kayaking in cold water on a warm day. You can either dress for immersion or dress for a workout. There just isn't an ideal solution. Either you dress for immersion (the safe option) and sweat like a pig, or you dress for a workout (the risky option) and hope like hell that something doesn't go wrong to send you on a long swim.

In sea kayaking you can dress for immersion and plan on "roto-cooling", which means doing a few eskimo rolls if you get too hot. That works well enough if you know how to eskimo roll. This is easily approximated in SUP by falling off the board. Much easier than learning to roll.

In sea kayaking, you can dress for a workout if you have multiple safety backups. Such as a good eskimo roll, paddling partners, a VHF radio, and paddling in a popular location. Not ideal, but if you have skills, it's something I am comfortable doing.

Kevin Whilden

[JimK]

I have 2 solutions here Firts Wetsuit wise the HYPERFLEX MOJO 3M is a lot warmer than its thickness would let you think mobility and ease of entry are amazing

BUT the most AMAZING is the price AND QUALITY Mine is used hard for 3 yeras still going strong and for less than $149 This is an AMAZING suit made here in the USA How about that.

If you REALLY need a full dry suit I use the OCEAN RODEO PYRO PRO warm durable they even have a Pyrosurf for a sleeker look. I only use this on the coldest of cold days water temps in the low 40F The MOJO does the trick 90% of the time...But this Drysuit is MUCH less than the Kokatat

For more details feel free to contact me karabaszJP@aol.com

JimK
www.extremewindsurfing.com