Author Topic: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread  (Read 10012 times)

Big Island Mike

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 05:27:22 AM »
I'm with Steamroller, word for word.

outcast

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2009, 08:52:48 AM »
 ;)
Too many for the rack
Some in the shack
Some under decks
Some have straps

Byronmaui

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2009, 09:50:27 AM »

Mauiguy

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 10:48:36 AM »
OK, now that we're all more or less in agreement with each other concerning what constitutes expertise and etiquette, the question is now what can be done to enforce respect before the sh*t starts hitting the fan in a big way?

The problem doesn't seem to be perpetrated by Zone readers.  Anyone who comes here to continue their participation in the sport online is conscientious enough to want to do things right.   As stated by others, the problem is mainly with newcomers and casual participants regardless of their surfing background or athletic abilities.

I think enforcement of rules should start with the shops who sell new boards and rentals.   One idea would be to form a league of SUP chapters and publish an official detailed list of SUP rules - tailored for each locality (this is important) and ask the local shops to hand these out to their customers and explain the rules every time they take a board out the door.   Shop owners and salespeople should explain the rules to the extent that the customer acknowledges and understands them in no uncertain terms.

Another thing that SUP'ers should do is choose one or two popular surf breaks in their locales and establish them as OFF LIMITS to SUP.   On Maui (I know I'm going to take an unpopular position here), I'd vote to make lower reef Kanaha taboo.   Why?  It's one of the last sanctuaries especially for longboarders.   It's hard enough to paddle out to let alone share waves with SUPers.  They've literally infested the place.  Some of the newbie SUPers out there make the people in the video posted by jjue look like they've been doing it for half a decade.   If Kanaha is breaking, there's just too many other viable choices where SUPers can go and not get in anyone's way.  If the kitesurfing community is disciplined enough to pass on Kanaha and stay out of the way of windsurfers, why can't the SUP community do the same for surfers?   The same should be true of breaks such as Ho'okipa, Honolua Bay, Dumps, and La Perouse.   Repeat this gesture in other places around the globe and the SUP community will start gaining a lot more respect than they're seeing now.  

In short, you can't solve the problem with a majority of SUPers demonstrating respect because as everyone knows, all it takes is a few bad apples and a few incidents to set off a firestorm of protest.

Sorry if this sounds like a negative rant.   I just love the sport so much that I don't want to see it suffer from draconian bans,  fights in the lineup, and be labeled a kook, which I don't think I am.    What do you guys think (about these ideas, not whether or not I'm a kook! :-) ?

Aloha!

Gary
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 10:51:55 AM by Mauiguy »

Chan

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 11:07:15 AM »
Quote
Another thing that SUP'ers should do is choose one or two popular surf breaks in their locales and establish them as OFF LIMITS to SUP.   On Maui (I know I'm going to take an unpopular position here), I'd vote to make lower reef Kanaha taboo.   Why?  It's one of the last sanctuaries especially for longboarders.   It's hard enough to paddle out to let alone share waves with SUPers.  They've literally infested the place.  Some of the newbie SUPers out there make the people in the video posted by jjue look like they've been doing it for half a decade.   If Kanaha is breaking, there's just too many other viable choices where SUPers can go and not get in anyone's way.  If the kitesurfing community is disciplined enough to pass on Kanaha and stay out of the way of windsurfers, why can't the SUP community do the same for surfers?   The same should be true of breaks such as Ho'okipa, Honolua Bay, Dumps, and La Perouse.   Repeat this gesture in other places around the globe and the SUP community will start gaining a lot more respect than they're seeing now.
 


Hmmm.  What about Thousand peaks, Launiapoko, Kuau, and the Harbor?  These breaks are also popular with SUP’s and longboarders.  

What waves do you suggest for SUP?


« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 11:11:22 AM by Chan »

WB_BB

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2009, 11:16:10 AM »


I think enforcement of rules should start with the shops who sell new boards and rentals.   One idea would be to form a league of SUP chapters and publish an official detailed list of SUP rules - tailored for each locality (this is important) and ask the local shops to hand these out to their customers and explain the rules every time they take a board out the door.   Shop owners and salespeople should explain the rules to the extent that the customer acknowledges and understands them in no uncertain terms.


I agree with you here. Shop owners and rental companies have got to let their customers know the "unwritten rules" of the water and correct ettique of SUPs or this is only going to continue to get worse. Outside of the shop owners I think that it is up to us to educate other riders on the ways of the water and what is and is not acceptable.
It may also be a good idea to get groups like Surfrider involved and have then speak to their chapters. Just some ideas

Mauiguy

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2009, 12:57:11 PM »
Hmmm.  What about Thousand peaks, Launiapoko, Kuau, and the Harbor?  These breaks are also popular with SUP’s and longboarders.  

What waves do you suggest for SUP?

Chan,  All of them.  No seriously, I understand what you're getting at.  The idea is a slippery slope and who's to decide which breaks are off limits?    They're all good questions.   Perhaps that's where local chapters of a SUP league could come in.   A consensus vote perhaps?   The idea would be to send a signal of respect to local surf communities.  I think it would be a highly visible gesture.  Again, I use the kitesurfing example.   Every kitesurfer around would love to use Lowers, but they don't because they understand the consequences of what would happen if they were to co-mingle.    I know for a fact from speaking with the lifeguards at Kanaha that things just about reached critical mass last winter.  They heard so many bitter complaints from surfers mainly citing reasons of safety that I think this winter something is going to happen.

There's a reason why you don't see many (if any) SUPs at Ho'okipa save for an elite few like Laird, Buzzy, et al.  Most SUPs know they would wind up getting a knuckle sandwich at places like Ho'okipa so they stay clear.   The Bay, Frieght Trains, Lahaina harbor may be similar.  I just think the SUP community needs to collectively do something more or else they'll wind up loosing the ability to SUP at places like you mentioned anyway.

Aloha,

Gary 



Jeroensurf

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2009, 01:08:26 PM »
I don,t know how the situation is on Hawaii, but in the parts of Europe i paddeled its much more easy and friendly. They accept that i,m doing something different as they do and arent as good on a wave as some prone surfers, but as long as i,m no Hog, its no problem.
SUPing isnt still going of like its going in the U.S so its in france and the Netherlands still a bit of a rare sport wich people accept much easier as a full invasion like seems to be going on at the other side of the Atlantic.
I think when SUPing will become big the statement of Steamroller and Archie do make sense but there are IMO some Buts:
Not every place got plenty of spots so there is no 2th spot option to go to.
Of course don,t go in when you are a danger to others, but when you never can go in, you won,t learn.
In places like that you just have to deal with eachother and just stay communicating.
We can learn a lot from the experienced surfers, but they can also profit from us (hey we have a lot better view on whats coming) .
Being different doesnt mean you have to back off no matter what like Deb posted.
Sharing and respect should always come from both sides.
To get that, you need to communicate.
Coming from a wavesailing and boogieboard background i,m used to be a sort of antichrist for some prone surfers, but as long as you keep communicating and tell what you do, what you don,t ask at what they think about it etc etc you can sail and sup pretty much everywhere without any hassle and having all parties fun.


@Blane and other shapers: you can laminate on the beginner/medium boards a list of rules on the deck between the feet...hard to miss  and to ignore:D

jjue

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2009, 01:28:31 PM »
Some thoughts from a California  wannabe surfer  dude  ..  the "Surf " Culture permeates    west coast culture ...  we are all , of us , wannabe surfers ,  but   many of us  have tried surfing , taking a few lessons . and realized it is damn hard  and takes  alot of time to learn  , and give it up ... but along  comes    a nice big floaty board with   a paddle .. maybe we demo a board somewhere , and realize that hey this thing is pretty damn easy  to do ...    and if we have the dough we  buy one , hell we can pick one up at Costco or Target ,  or Rei .. ...   we take it down to the beach and realize we can catch a wave pretty  darn easy and stay on the board down the  wave ... if there is a channel out to the local prone break we don't even have to really punch out through the whitewater and   if we are reasonally fit we can take the channel  right out and be right in the break again ..   maybe in   a few months or at most a year if we are a fit  young guy we can surf  our sup's like those guys on the Vid  I posted .and think we are pretty hot stuff.. .   there  has been  no appreticeship  of waiting in the line up , we have no clue of surf etiquette , of safety issues for others , no respect for the prone guys , no clue how  to control  our boards when we are closed out  or in the whitewater,   absolutely no clue ...   .. maybe someone gets  hurt from our board or paddle .
we are not mean spirited  or    even careless.. we are   just wannabe  surfers  and suddenly have  been given the tool to make the dream a reality ...   what we are is totally and completely clueless....
yes , how to   stop this  scenario from happening over and over is   really important   , otherwise   we  will most certainly be regulated away   ....  
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 01:37:36 PM by jjue »

NCBA

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2009, 07:31:39 PM »
This is agreat post because of lots of agreements. As a diehard 23 plus years shortboarder , I agree on having certain spots.  I consider myself an expert because there aren't many waves that I wouldn't surf and I am always a step ahead and can pull out in tight situations.I would not and don't like a stand up guys in front of me , unless its a friend. Because we have a mutual understanding of respect and sharing. I also don't care for longboarders that sip across in front to catch a majoritiy of set waves. Local chapters are the solution. But coast to coast it is different because of the waves supply.

The great thing about this site is , now when I go surf San Diego and I can ask a local which spot is OK and which is not. I know I've surfed Mission Beach and PB Point in the past. Are they fine or are there better spots?

Jeroensurf

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2009, 11:17:02 PM »
@JJue, maybe i,m gonna say something very unpopular, but whats wrong with it?
People wanna live there dreams and the fact they are less talented shouldnt be a reason to stay out of the water.
Due time people will learn and yes it will be a shortcut on surfing, but except the really stupid you have in every sport they also got common sense.

The same thing you say now about SUP the same thing could the older surfer say against the younger ones:
[cracky voice mode on:] Look you young fella, in our day,s we didnt had the light glassed shortboards but had to swim out on a 35kg Balsa board with only one fin and without a leash instead of the toyboard you using now.
you know nothing about how to swim out because with your stuff live is much easier.[cracky voice mode off:]

As a windsurfer I said the same about kiting wich is also a lot easier to learn. It takes a few years to shake down but aftyer that they have been accepted as anything else in the water (right now in Holland i think the windsurfers are the minority).
Because kiting is soo much easier i see finally a lot of young kids on the beach enjoying the water that probably wouldnt follow the long windsurf route.
In the end we all want the same, get out and have fun on the water.
We also want everything is save, but i think as soon as you gonna try seperate groups you stop communicating and lose control. After that the next step will be pointing at eachother and will be no respect.




jjue

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 07:28:47 AM »
Thanks Jeroensurf and Flipperade , for   bringing up    some of the other side of the coin  viewpoint...    one of the issues    , is that  as  a newbie ,  standing  and watching  prone surfers out  (shortboarders and  longboarders both )  on the nontechnical   "easier " breaks , ,  you often see  folks  who are not experts , taking spectacular falls    and   just kicking out  and losing control of their boards  and depending on their leashes , yet they   just  pick up and keep going at it and no one seems to bother them much about it ...  you kind of think   well .   yeah there are really cool surfers who  don't fall off and ride the  waves really well but    there are a ton of   folks    wiping out  , so what gives with me joining in the  general  mayhem ..
and I understand that  a   longboard  fin or shortboard fin  running someone down   is just  as bad as an SUP fin or paddle  or worse ...  , why the rule that  I have to be an expert  level  SUP rider to join any prone break .. ??   I guess the  thing  that  really  made a light go off in my head about it was watching that  vid  that I posted earlier ... and imagining that I am a prone rider ...  an out of control   SUP  guy   on a big board with a  paddle  , catching wave after wave, and wiping out spectacularly     ,  as  I try to catch one good wave , is  pretty  damn scary ..  the whole vibe is different  from  the other  surfers wiping out  ,  I did not really realize that .. and  I am beginning to see that perhaps there is something inherently different   in our   surfboards  and the way we surf  and the way we look to other  surfers ,  that   is important to take into consideration .. .. . I am no expert .. I really DO  want to ride the  "beginner and intermediate"  popular prone breaks ..   I want to   because finding    other   appropriate breaks to my skill level ,   is often quite hard , and I want to get better.   but this thread and the comments on this and the Swaylock's thread  , has really gotten me thinking of HOW     and where I am going to   go  to learn to SUP surf..

ps. much of this has to  do with crowds . there is still a lot of Aloha spirit in   small groups .. .I went to a local break   at dawn  before anyone got there .. junky   little waves but fun    ,  then  a  prone guy joins  me who is obviously a virtuoso .. he  is  doing handstands , coffin rides,   nose rides  , backward rides.. everything    while I am flailing about   ..    we keep out of each others way .. i spend a lot of  time just sitting outside watching the show    ,or resting on the beach ... I grab  a few waves in between   the show ...    I applaud his  show  as do  the   folks  walking on the beach .. we comment on how nice a morning it is  .. I ask him what kind of board he is riding ..  he says it is  99 dollar    costco   tri fin foamie  longboard that he  thinks is the best  kind of thing for these kinds of junky     waves.. he even offers to let me ride it ... I say no thanks    ,  I  need  my big floaty board and paddle :)!!     ,   we both comment on how nice a day it is ...  he takes off and then I have the break all to myself  ,   the tide goes out a bit and the waves get bigger and  5 guys show  up ...    I say , oh no ,    these guys are going to give me the stink eye and  scoot me out of here .. but absolutely not .. all these guys are super good prone guys on short boards  .. and  one guy even  is  watching waves for me to catch  and telling me when to paddle hard to catch the waves..      but  I realize  this little break is getting  way too  crowded  and I would just get in their way  , .. so  I leave .... very nice   morning  , indeed !
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 07:50:09 AM by jjue »

Tom

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 07:43:21 AM »
I think soft top surf boards and surf school/camps have gotten more people into surfing than SUP ever will. On another note, I have a lot of people ask me about learning to SUP and I always ask them if they surf. If they say no, I tell them that they shouldn't be out in the waves until they spend a couple of years surfing.

Deb

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2009, 08:08:31 AM »
Hey jjue - I think you touched on something worth mentioning - "....on the non-technical 'easier' breaks ....". Yes, there should be breaks for newbies (both sup and prone) where they can put in the hours to gain skills, make mistakes, learn, get stronger, etc, and the more advanced surfers could either look for more advanced breaks, or if that's not an option, be low-key with the newbies. There are a couple of places here on Maui that are known as breaks where newbies go, and it seems to work out okay.

Mauiguy

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Re: Blane Weighs in On Swaylock Anti Sup Thread
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 11:23:47 AM »
Hey jjue - I think you touched on something worth mentioning - "....on the non-technical 'easier' breaks ....". Yes, there should be breaks for newbies (both sup and prone) where they can put in the hours to gain skills, make mistakes, learn, get stronger, etc, and the more advanced surfers could either look for more advanced breaks, or if that's not an option, be low-key with the newbies. There are a couple of places here on Maui that are known as breaks where newbies go, and it seems to work out okay.

Deb, actually, your idea sounds better than mine, although I still favor an outright SUP ban at Kanaha lowers primarily because I love surfing it so much and I know how bad the hatred is building out there.   That said, local SUP organizations *could* form and establish a ranking system for the various local breaks in their area and publish them as guidelines for the shops and SUP communities to enforce (i.e. police themselves) in their local areas.

I'll say it again, if SOMETHING along these lines don't happen soon, we're all going to find ourselves in a world of disappointment and be fighting uphill battles everywhere.

Aloha!

Gary

 


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