WINDSURFING A STANDUP PADDLEBOARD

[jjue]

out yesterday on the  big river.  , , stand up paddling   at  200pm   my bic jungle    Sup     in 0 -5 knots  of wind      by  330pm  wind is  up  to   5-10 knots and   put on  a 7.2 sail  and  windsurfing   gliding  nicely  along with daggerboard in,    by  500pm wind  up to 18-20  kts    daggerboard out and planing  a bit overpowered ...  

some observations   :  for landlocked  SUP  guys  like me  on lakes and rivers....  SUP's are super   cool   even with no waves at all .. .nice fun  flat water paddling   ,   as the wind kicks up   put on a sailing rig  at have at it !

in  light winds     especially heading up  wind     against a tidal current     a  daggerboard  is nice even  for experienced  sailors ... bravo for Starboard and Bic for providing SUP 's boards with  daggerboards ..

SUP board surf design really is  nice for   having fun windsurfing ,   they are designed to   allow  straight ahead paddle and thus  glide nicely in low wind with a sail ...   the  wide   center of the boards ( wider then most   dedicated longboard windsurfers )   really allow  uphauling to be done  easily in choppy conditions as well as allowing nice comfortable fast  tacks   in  powered up choppy  conditions  as the board  comes off a plane...  I  was actually finding it easier to tack my SUP  around in windy  conditions  then gybe it around when overpowered.


the surf    type rocker of an SUP  and small surf  fin of an SUP , while  not planing as  fast   as a dedicated   windsurf board  with a  flat planing tail and  a
big fin ... allows a very nice controllable plane  when powered up ..  even though way powered up and in choppy water  and   using a  harness ..  i did not feel  like  i was   zipping along so fast that I needed to  be   in foot straps to control the board ...   the SUP seemed to  sit a bit  more in the water on the  surf rocker type tail   and  be more stable flying through the chop .. I did not feel like  I need to be in foot straps  , and ride was not as bumpy as on a shortboard rocketing over  chop  in the  straps   .

I  think  I can understand why Pono Bill likes sailing his SUP boards   even when powered up  ....     a really  nice   comfortable  yet exciting ride ... that seems less exhausting then the   hell bent to leather high wind  adrenalin ride on shortboards. .

also  the  range  of these boards from no wind      to high wind is just amazing ...

[wavehobbit]

It really opened up my eyes and made me realize after 20 years of shlogging on a windsurfing wave board or more recently a freestyle board that it is a huge niche that the windsurfing manf's completely missed.  I can't believe they aren't putting mast tracks in the smaller SUP boards.  If you think wavesailing a 11' plus board is fun, I've been having a blast on my 9'6".  The best part is it's still effortless and you catch a ton of waves.  Right now all the windsurf manf's only offer very flat sharp railed freeride boards when you get up to 120 -140 liters.  They really need to consider making boards in this range that have surfboard rails and outlines and rockers that still plane but are more wave orientated.  I think of the masses of people who don't live in the windy areas of the world that could be effortlessly enjoying the sport without doing the hula dance waiting for waves on lighter wind days.  Come ON Windsurf industry step up to the plate!!!!!!

[jjue]

We really need more   vid   of what we are talking about ...     this  is  a new style of windsurfing ,   this is  all about putting sails on  SUP surfboards   and not  wave sailing with    windsurfers ,   there is   a lot of pooh pooing    sailing on  real SUP boards in the windsurf world ..  Even in designing longboard windsurfers, . the Exocet/  kona folks  think we need step tails  and more of  windsurf oriented type design, flatter in the tail , less surf rocker...  ...    There is a big   design world  and performance world  waiting to be explored if we  take   real SUP  boards and put  mast steps on them and  ride  the boards more like surfers do ., rather than  like      windsurfers do on their freeride or wave sailing  windsurf boards.
I  like  this vid    as it really speaks to this kind of style ,..Hey Wave hobbit , I  would love to see  vid of you sailing your 9'6" board in waves... that  must be super  cool !

Longboard Windsurfing with Stand-up Paddle Board + Sail

[Jeroensurf]

Starboard offers most of there boards with a mastbase...my Element 9.8x30 got one.
Mistral buid the pacifico, Fanatic comes up with 3 SUP, Naish a lot more..they are already there

Vids:If you like the one above, check this:
Jeffrey Henderson was one of the first (if not the first) to use a longboard/SUP for windsurfing.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gcammar#play/uploads/44/HqA5n1caLmM

[jjue]

One of the hidden benefits  of the SUP as windsurfers , is that they have a ton of stability in the center of the board  while still maintaining the ability to glide well in light winds.   I like this   vid of an athletic beginner   windsurfing  her Starboard  12'6" sup  on the third day out ,,  driving the board nicely , hooked in , planing  and  making a nice tack in  choppy   water .   I think   it really illustrates how  nice the stability in the center of the board  is for  folks  learning how to windsurf on their SUP's

Catherine on her third day windsurfing

[pavedwave]

Has anyone tried or had success with suction-cup mounted mast-- like these spiritsails?



http://www.spiritsails.com/products-page/?category=2

I'm trying to set up mast on a 12'6" SUP that doesn't have any mounting holes like the newer SUPs, really like the board and would like to avoid drilling it if all possible. 

The other idea is a kayak/canoe sail from Hobie, which is also suction-cup mounted.  But they don't seem too familiar with the SUP-sail concept so far, and where to tack down the lines might be a tricky bit. 
http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/kayak_sail.html

Just curious if I'm wasting my time on the suction cup stuff...

[jjue]

Has anyone tried or had success with suction-cup mounted mast-- like these spiritsails?

I'm trying to set up mast on a 12'6" SUP that doesn't have any mounting holes like the newer SUPs, really like the board and would like to avoid drilling it if all possible.  

Just curious if I'm wasting my time on the suction cup stuff...

Here is another downwind sail that actually has been used with SUP boards. .  These just  attach to the deck by  clipping in to  a leash plug
They  have   developed  a specific  sail for SUP .  It is intended to  be rolled up and  lashed to the deck  while paddling and then   after deployment
the   paddle  is  lashed to the deck and  off you go ...




They don't have a vid  of  sailing an SUP .. but here is  a  vid clip  of how the hand held sail works on an outrigger ... looks like it is pretty efficient

Breezer Sails outrigger sailing Kauai


http://www.breezersails.com/

[pavedwave]

Here is another downwind sail that actually has been used with SUP boards. .  These just  attach to the deck by  clipping in to  a leash plug
They  have   developed  a specific  sail for SUP .  It is intended to  be rolled up and  lashed to the deck  while paddling and then   after deployment
the   paddle  is  lashed to the deck and  off you go ...

cool!!   It looks like the breezer and the spirit sails are like downwind spinnakers, whereas the Hobie Kayak sail might give a little more control similar to a standard windsurfer?   i'm hoping to get something I can tack and go upwind as well, eventually.   

I probably should pester local board-meister Lee about this in person, though I have the suspicion he'll just convince me to drill holes in the board after all   

[PeteCresswell]

It's very hard to learn to windsurf from text. I'd really suggest you try to find an instructor. You can make big leaps with someone just telling you what you are doing wrong.

Chalk up one more vote for the instructor route.

Learning to windsurf is the hardest thing I've ever done.

I spent a whole summer of weekends and then two weeks of vacation every day learning to get on the board, sail out 100 feet, turn around, and then sail back.  No lessons.

Couple years back, I took two of my grandchildren down to Lakes Bay for a lesson.

They were doing the "sail out 100 feet, turn around,  sail back" thing in.... are you ready for this: two hours.


Also, this might not apply to all SUP boards, but I've got a 10' x 34".   With a "real" windsurfer, one goes to windward, waterstarts, and turns on the fin.    My experience with the 10' x 34" is that one needs to go to windward, waterstart, and turn using the rails.

I don't have but about 4 hours on it so far, but I'm finding it quite enjoyable to sail.   My other boards are a JP Excite 145 and a Starboards Kombat 106.

[PeteCresswell]

What size and type of rig do you guys recommend?

Should be light and not that big I guess, because you want easy handling and not going that fast as on a race board.

A guy named John Ingbretson (SP?) posts a lot on SUP sailing and he uses an AeroTech 7.5 made out of a special lightweight material.   The lightweight material rings true to me....

[CB1]

What size and type of rig do you guys recommend?

Should be light and not that big I guess, because you want easy handling and not going that fast as on a race board.

A guy named John Ingbretson (SP?) posts a lot on SUP sailing and he uses an AeroTech 7.5 made out of a special lightweight material.   The lightweight material rings true to me....

I believe JohnI is using the Aerotech sails made form cuben fiber material (on the Kona range of boards).

Another lightweight sail suggestion is the Hot Sails SuperFreak (UL - ultra light construction).

[jdmotes]

What size and type of rig do you guys recommend?

Should be light and not that big I guess, because you want easy handling and not going that fast as on a race board.

A guy named John Ingbretson (SP?) posts a lot on SUP sailing and he uses an AeroTech 7.5 made out of a special lightweight material.   The lightweight material rings true to me....

I believe JohnI is using the Aerotech sails made form cuben fiber material (on the Kona range of boards).

Another lightweight sail suggestion is the Hot Sails SuperFreak (UL - ultra light construction).

Correct: John is an Aerotech team rider. I believe he lives in Titusville Fl... He loves his Cubans!  Later,   JD

[aircube]

Too, funny this post is all about doing EXACTLEY waht people were doing in the early 80's on longboards and tandems, putting sails on them.  The only difference is that the construction and rigging has improved a lot.

I put my 12'6 Starboard next to my Circa1983 sailboard and its virtually identical in outline, rocker, rail shape, etc. 

 I too got bored with highwind adrenaline junkie windsurfing, I was alway waiting for 35 knot days so I could get my 200lbs butt pulled around at mach speeds on a 72 litre board.  So about 10 years ago I put a masttrack and footstrapinserts in a BIC 9' CLassic longboard.

Later I tried a 10'er and it worked even better.

SUPs are really just a marketing/repackaging of three sports, sailing, surfing and paddling.

I was a full convert 10 years ago from "highwind adrenaline junkie" to "high-level fun-junkie".  I'm really pleased the sport is coming right back to its roots.  A Surfboard, a Sail, a Paddle, and a day off work.

Heres some pics of the BIC longboard i converted about 10 years ago.
 

[jjue]

Very cool pics    Aircube !   yeah ,     back to the past in a sense ....  your pics of the footstraps  on the Bic longboard   is cool ...  and  the  position of the rear strap is something I have been playing around with on my  SUP  for high wind free riding ..
sometimes it is really interesting to  go back  and  see how folks sailed their original windsurfers   when there were no straps and also what the early folks did when straps first became used ...

it seems  like  back in the  old days before short boards ...  lots of folks used a  center placed rear strap     just in front of the fin   , and that  often folks  went for the back strap   first even before fully planing  and  in the harness ,  totally contrary to the current shortboard practice of  hooking in and then  going from the front outboard strap and then the rear outboard ( or center strap) ..
going for the rear strap  first was primarily a  manuver to prevent catapults ... without  any straps   folks on the original windsurfers assumed a very low stance  with  a bent rear leg with a lot of weight way back on that  leg  and the front leg way extended forward to prevent catapults.

current  folks on   formula boards   often have  a "chicken center strap "  for downwind legs  in addition to their  outboard straps . ,   as they are often overpowered with big sails ...  and have a difficult  job taming the boards   with the outboard straps only .  

Here is a formula board set up  with  a  black  "chicken strap "



there is a guy on  I Windsurf forum   named Isobars  who  is  a strong  advocate of going for a rear center strap first rather then the common  practice of going for the  front straps and he gets alot of grief there for this bizarre opinion .   He says in the early  days of windsurfing longboards  , he and his buddies just put a single rear strap on their boards out back near the fin and  just used the  one strap and had a whale of fun in high winds...

I know that Ponobill uses no straps  even when  overpowered on his  SUP at the gorge .. and one of the really cool things about SUP free riding is the ability to have one sail and leave it on   from low wind to high wind  while everyone else  is  busy rigging up or down  ...   but unlike Ponobill . I have less suction  in my Gecko feet and have   had some rather  dramatic catapults when   hit by gusts going downwind or on a beam reach   while  way overpowered .   BUT   like Ponobill I really like  no straps and moving around   on the board    which works pretty well  going up wind overpowered..

So what I really want is a centered  single foot strap     right to the rear of my SUP , this would  serve a dual purpose of  being a handle  for SUP surfing  and  a  foot strap     to prevent catapaults for high wind  free riding ..
Unfortunately  ,   my    Bic Sup  has rear foot strap inserts but only for outboard straps and none for a center  strap ... here is   a pic of where my straps are and the blue strap is where I really want my rear foot strap...



I was a bit frustrated   until I suddenly realized that   I  could  go  for the leeward rear  strap from the center of the board while powered up  in choppy waters and swell ,  ..    this  is  really  great  and with my  size foot is close to what a center strap would  do  and allows me  a ton more   control when free riding   powered up   and avoiding catapaults.     Here is   a pic of my bootie in the leeward strap  from the center line of the board.  I do not use a front strap at all .  (  by the way formula   racers without   a center strap sometimes  will go  for the leeward  strap in this way   essentially  straddling the board to  control their boards downwind ,  this has been called using the " piggy strap " ,   sort of like you are so scared  you could squeal like a pig !
I am glad   my leeward  strap  is not that far away on my  SUP !)



I  really think for  high/moderate wind windsurfing   on an SUP  a single rear strap  is a great idea     and leaves a nice   uncluttered deck  otherwise  for  moving around   while   having a security    device when  powered up in chop  and   providing a  tail handle for use  when in paddle mode.

[jjue]

one foot note to the  center rear foot strap idea...   I emailed Bic with this suggestion   and got this reply ...
"
With regards to the centre rear footstrap insert, we actually included this quite early in the production and cancelled the outer rear footstrap inserts. All boards since about mid-2008 have been delivered with this centre rear insert.
 
However, as you have observed, for the large majority of conditions the boards works best without any footstraps at all. The inserts are included simply for those that might prefer to plane around in flatwater windy conditions with footstraps."