Author Topic: Weight Matters  (Read 726 times)

Beasho

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Weight Matters
« on: January 24, 2023, 10:27:26 AM »
With all the talk about board lengths, and widths why doesn’t anyone talk

WEIGHT ?

What does it WEIGH?

We need to shed some LIGHT on Weight.  It’s like we’re all hanging out afraid to offend Anorexics. 

As I have started down the path of board building I have been running the numbers on WEIGHT. 
I have realized that the majority of boards are built:

1)   To look good with THICK Paint jobs
2)   To Not Ding
3)   Without Vacuum bags

When it comes to weight of SUP foil boards
•   8 lbs is DIVINE weight
•   10 lbs is DREAM Weight
•   12 lbs is Fantastic
•   15 lbs Average
•   18 lbs Getting Too Heavy

I now look at boards and I see DEAD WEIGHT.  I am starting to believe that even a BAD shape that is LIGHT will be better than a great shape that is TOO Heavy. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 10:29:47 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2023, 10:27:51 AM »
In this video The Flying Dutchman suggests: 1 lb per 10 liters so a 100 liter board would be 10 lbs.

Flying Dutchman: Volume and Weight.  This guy is at the Cutting Edge of DURABLE Foil Boards.  Light and STRONG. 

--> https://oneflyingdutchman.com/all-about-foils/

https://youtu.be/QPuXwRFAn28



Dwight (DW)

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2023, 11:50:51 AM »
Customers are kooks. They don’t think twice about just putting their boards on the pavement when rigging, instead of grass. They put their knees on the board bottom while mounting the foil. They fall on the deck. Would you want to deal with ding complaints?

You can build a tough custom board that is lighter than production, simply because custom boards don’t need 50 footstrap inserts for every whacky customer preference.

If you want a no compromise ding machine, you have to build it yourself.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 12:00:47 PM by Dwight (DW) »

SUPeter

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2023, 08:20:56 AM »
In some interview with Dave Kalama I remember him commenting on DW boards that were too light were more pitch sensitive, especially when dropping down the bigger steeper bumps.  In some ways, I find that to be true.  While playing with mast positions on my DW board, Having the mast far forward (less nose swing weight) the board becomes a bit more challenging to control, though easier to pump.  Having the mast more rearward, control becomes much easier.  I, myself, prefer to make boards as lightweight as possible. Again, compromise is always the sweet spot.

Dontsink

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2023, 09:30:42 AM »
In some interview with Dave Kalama I remember him commenting on DW boards that were too light were more pitch sensitive, especially when dropping down the bigger steeper bumps.  In some ways, I find that to be true.  While playing with mast positions on my DW board, Having the mast far forward (less nose swing weight) the board becomes a bit more challenging to control, though easier to pump.  Having the mast more rearward, control becomes much easier.  I, myself, prefer to make boards as lightweight as possible. Again, compromise is always the sweet spot.

As  much as i like and respect Dave Kalama i think you should take that statement with a grain of salt.
He is selling hundreds of production boards and as DW said most customers mistreat high tech gear.
Kalama production boards are not specially light, his custom jobs weigh nothing...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 09:32:35 AM by Dontsink »

sflinux

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2023, 05:21:34 AM »
With all the talk about board lengths, and widths why doesn’t anyone talk
WEIGHT ?
What does it WEIGH?
Or more specifically, don't we want to know the density of a SUP foil board?
Density = Mass (g) / Volume (L)
Reference) 1 pound = 453.5924 grams ; 28.34952 g = 1 oz
e.x. #1)
i.e. Your foil amigo's board is 9 lbs right now: 7' 6" Board x 21" @ 125 Liters 
Density (foil amigo's board) = 4082.3 g / 125 L = 32.7 g/L

e.x. #2) Flying Dutchman 100L board @ 160 oz
Density (Fying Dutchman) = 4535.924 g / 100 L = 45.4 g/L

e.x. #3) Kalama Performance E3 7'2" x 31.75" 167L @ 18.96 lbs
Density (E3) = 8600.1 g / 167 L = 51.5 g/L

e.x. #4) Sunova Sup foil 7'3" x 33" 167L @ 8.96 kg
Density (sunova) = 8960 g / 167 L = 53.7 g/L

Like board dimensions, I agree weight should also be included the specifications of a foilboard.  I hope other manufacturers do like Kalama Performance & Sunova and include that spec.  Jimmy Lewis does not.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 05:36:57 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

sflinux

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2023, 06:15:25 AM »
This XPS has a density of 1.6 pounds/ cubic foot:
https://xps.supply/product/kingspan-greenguard-4-x-4-x-8-square-edge-board-insulation-21/

That converts to the above units of 25.6 g/L
{(1.6 pound = 725.7478 g, cubic foot = 28.31685 L) => 725 g/28.3 L}
So a final board density of ~32 g/L is impressive.

With 0.1% water absorption, an unfinished 100L board could take on 0.1 L = 100 grams
Assuming the volume stays the same, but the weight increases, that would give a "wet" density for XPS of 26.6 g / L.
{28.3165 L x 0.001 = 0.0283165 L of water = 28.31685 g of water; (725.7478 + 28.31685) / 28.31685 L }

Is this where you guys are sourcing your XPS?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 06:36:41 AM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

PonoBill

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2023, 10:02:35 AM »
Quote from: sflinux link=topic=38349.msg439206#msg439206
Like board dimensions, I agree weight should also be included the specifications of a foilboard.  I hope other manufacturers do like Kalama Performance & Sunova and include that spec.  Jimmy Lewis does not.

Jimmy is smart not to mention weight. All his boards, even customs, are sandwich construction. Intrinsically heavier than non-sandwich. Everyone knows Jimmy boards are bomber, but if people see two boards with the same specs and one is lighter, they'll buy the light one. And then be pissed when the first time they lay the board down with a sharp pebble under it they get a ding, or worse yet, punch a leaker hole. And if they don't see it their two-pound-lighter board will suddenly be five pounds heavier.

Don'tsink's comment is right on. Sunova boards are also sort-of sandwich, which is why they're heavier, and also why they are tougher.

I prefer Flying Dutchman boards, but considering them anything like production boards is laughable. Most custom boards are produced faster. Mark makes one board a week and lavishes attention on each one. His extremely expensive high-tech material and fabrication techniques make a light but strong board, but they aren't Jimmy-tough. They can't be. I'm amazed he still makes boards for me (though my wait times have increased greatly) since he knows I beat the shit out of everything.

Beasho's approach to radically changing surfboard construction has no commercial potential. The boards won't be shiny, people buy shiny unless the non-shiny board is super cheap (Wavestorm). XPS was tried and discarded by the surfboard industry long ago because you can't make a pretty board from it. If you seal it in fiberglass it delams. The porous idea can work, but it's going to look like a Wavestorm reject.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 10:21:48 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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