Author Topic: Weight Matters  (Read 5861 times)

sflinux

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2023, 08:58:47 PM »
And how about the the relationship of center of mass relative to the pivot point of the swing weight?
Erik Antonson commented that he likes to slide his mast forward in the box to minimize swing weight for pumping.
He commented that the heavy weight of a SUP wasn't a negative thing when the mast was moved forward in the box, but was when it was further back in the box. 
The KD Maui foil mast placement of holding the foil at 1/3 back [center of pressure] from the leading edge from the front foil and have the board be level (upside down).  Erik is moving his mast more forward relative to this setup to make pumping easier.
https://soundcloud.com/progressionproject/foil-series-ep-7-kane-dewild 23'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgOg8r6zbg
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 09:48:24 PM by sflinux »
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 200#, 6'2"

PonoBill

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2023, 10:53:39 PM »
I've never thought Kane's rule of thumb made any sense, but then he can foil circles around me, so I'm not in a position to make a big deal about that.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dontsink

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2023, 09:24:44 AM »
I just sold a 5.0 wingfoil board because it felt too heavy.Lost about 30% of the money i paid for it new :(
Loved the shape,track placement, the build quality,the specs...but i could not get used to the bigger weight and the sluggish inertia it created.
On a digital scale the difference was a ridiculous  +700 grams compared to what i am used to riding.
Sounds like nothing but it completely changed the feel in any conditions, way less fun and responsive.
In light wind it really affects the bottom end.


Hdip

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2023, 09:51:42 AM »
Sounds like the weight doesn't matter, but the shape does. People are obsessed with the idea that "the board doesn't matter" in foiling. We've got to stop saying that. The shape definitely matters.

jondrums

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2023, 11:33:31 AM »
I've never thought Kane's rule of thumb made any sense, but then he can foil circles around me, so I'm not in a position to make a big deal about that.

My own experimentation has landed in the same spot as Kane's rule.  Mind you this seems to be the optimum for pumping performance doing 2 for 1s and the like.

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2023, 01:46:01 PM »
The reason for balancing the weight of the board over the foil is so the board will fly by itself when it's unweighted.  This is crucial for dock starts and pumping.
This video shows how a well balanced foil mount will fly without tipping forward or backward:
https://youtu.be/_WPJ8kvsnLM?t=1471





Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

Beasho

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2023, 03:12:24 PM »
Back to the Weight. 

Here is a Matrix that shows what a board would weigh with:

1) 2X Layers of 6 oz Carbon around the whole board - This would be bomber AKA Heavy Duty.  12 ounces per yard of CARBON Fiber. 
2) 60% : 40% Carbon to Resin Ratio - This is what results from a vacuum bagging process
3) Assumed 2 lbs for TRACKS and reinforcement.  My latest TRACK Cassette was 19 ounces.  This leaves 13 ounces for reinforcement.

At this build schedule a 120 liter board with 1 lbs EPS foam (standard) would be 9.9 lbs. 

I have observed that most production boards come in 5 lbs heavier than these numbers.  And the manufacturers do not even post the weights (with some exceptions)

WHY? 

It comes down to construction method, and PAINT.  And when you do a minimal amount of research into Fiber to Resin ratios you will learn that heavier, non-vacuum bagged solutions are in fact heavier, more fragile and weaker.

Board shapes will change. 

These production methods have been around for 30+ years.  Windsurfers know, and remember the lightweight customs that used to come out of the Gorge in the late 80's and 90's.  Example HiPer Tech, Clam Sandwich . . . . 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2023, 03:18:57 PM by Beasho »

PonoBill

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2023, 10:10:46 PM »
Gary Efferding (HiPer Tech) is still around in Hood River, still making amazing stuff out of composites, but he mostly does it for Insitu -- the drone company Boeing owns. I need to get him involved in some of the stupid projects I'm pushing forward. He's endlessly enthusiastic. The only problem is that when we get together it's an ADHD idea fest, and neither of us gets anything done.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2023, 04:54:07 AM »
So my board is now up to 10 lbs 6 oz with additions including Kevlar rails where I was bashing it with my paddle.

BUT there are big changes that have come with a lighter board.

1) Additional mileage when SUP surfing

2) Many, many multiple waves caught

Examples below.  9.2 miles in a single SUP Foil session.  Last year a great day was 3 miles, up 300%. 

7 waves caught on a single ride.  Last year I was lucky to get a single double.  Meaning I went from being able to loop 1X to 6X in the period of 1 year, up 600%.  This after more than 6 years of SUP foiling.

Something has definitely changed.

PS: I have spent the last 9 months trying to learn to downwind, with moderate success.  I have added tracks to an otherwise TUTTLE based world.  The 9 mile session was on the Axis 1300 with high modulus 75 cm carbon mast, 699 fuselage.  In 2-3 foot surf with 6-8 mph side shore winds.  The 7-for-1 wave was on the Axis 1201 (both with 375P tail).  Last year I was riding the 1099 also with the 375P tail, aluminum 68 cm mast, with a 16.75 lbs board.     

But I have also added 1 year to a 50 year old body and am still 20 lbs heavier than I should be.  Compared to the prone pumpers and young guys I just wanted to take EVERY excuse off the table. 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 05:08:01 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2023, 05:12:23 AM »
This year's homemade Sailfish 7' 9" x 21" x 6" x 128 liters @ 10.5 lbs w-Strap.

The Firechicken 6' x 30" x 4.5" @ 16.75 lbs is 60% heavier.

The Sailfish is 30% longer, but pumps better and catches nothing waves. 

jondrums

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Re: Weight Matters
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2023, 08:19:30 PM »
beasho - will you give me the lowdown comparing the 1201 to 1099?  I'm still on the 999/1099 and will eventually probably be on the 1201, but I'm kind of waiting for the 1101 or 1001 if such a thing were to come out.

 


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