Author Topic: Ultralight Board Designs  (Read 24856 times)

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2023, 09:41:41 AM »
Have you come up with a name for this board?  Board looks great.  Looking forward to a ride report.
"Nicht Zehn Pfund"

I am calling it the Sailfish.  It is finished.

Final Weight: 9 lbs 12.4 ounces or 4.4 Kilograms

Is this the lightest downwind board in the World??


7' 9" x 21" x 6" @ 128 Liters. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 10:12:15 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2023, 09:48:11 AM »
Initial test:

Some call it a Frankenstein.  I prefer to think of it as a Fembot, the “Sailfish."

A quilt of Carbon, 4 layers thick at places, S- Glass and gossamer thin 1.4 oz E glass in the ends with Kevlar tips.  All made from waterproof XPS foam which is heavier, more durable but also 100% waterproof.  Half the board laminated with Epoxy and the other half with Gorilla glue.

The board was vacuum bagged for every step.

See the surface behind me.  Paddled it around.  Tried 5 flat water starts.  Not there yet.  Then the wind picked up to 8 mph.  So I rigged the 8.0.  Was on the 1300 with 450P tail.  Ok this flies with very little wind.

Light wind 8.0 was fantastic. Wind got a little more consistent so I took it in the ocean, big swell 11 feet at 17 seconds outside the harbar and wind was picking up way overpowered on 8.0 now gusting over 20+, tried gliding on big swell, came back upwind and rigged down to 5.5.

Simply the best wing board you could possibly have (Note I did NOT make this as a wing board but it worked great and I am not trying to jump like Titouan Galea nor beat Johnny Heineken in a race).  Why go small when you can have float to survive the wind dying in a board that weighs as little as a 4 footer. 

Ohh and when it touches down it doesn’t even feel the surface.  Gentle kisses. 

Ohhh and it will take off on Nothing!!!!!

PS: Someone noticed 'No need for a handle when the rig is light enough to just grab by the mast at the base of the board.  Meaning so little nose weight it doesn't matter if you aren't centered with your grip. . . . . More to come.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 10:16:42 AM by Beasho »

Dontsink

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2023, 10:07:25 AM »
Congrats Beasho, looks like a sweet ride.
Thx for sharing so many details, will come handy for sure.

Badger

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2665
  • Seacoast NH
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2023, 02:41:47 PM »
That came out awesome. I'd call it the stealth bomber.
Kalama E3 6'1 x 23" 105L
Axis HPS 980 / PNG 1300
Sunova Flow  8'10 X 31"  119L
Me - 6'0" - 165lbs - 66yo

seastudent

  • Waikiki Status
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2023, 08:06:42 PM »
Nice board. After some sea trials could you share some feedback? I'm admiring the plan and would like to fear any changes you might consider to either design or build after a few hours. It looks really good man.

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #80 on: March 27, 2023, 10:02:56 AM »
Quick Update: 32 Sessions later.

I have been out on this board for 32 Total Sessions:

  • 19 Sessions SUP Foil
  •   7 Sessions SUP Foil
  •   6 Session Wing Foil

I have only had 1 Mellow day on this board:  Meaning Glassy 2 - 3 foot day.  Every other session has been a mixed bag of Big to Imperfect to HUGE.  Buoys have been regularly going from 5 to 20 feet.  1 of the downwind sessions in the bay was blowing 35 mph gusting to 45 mph.  Another session was blowing 40 gusting to 60 mph.  Totally nuts.  The Epic Kayak guys said it was the windiest they had ever seen it from Coyote to 3rd Avenue in 15 years of their experience.

So the board has been taking a beating.  There has been wear on the rails.  I have made the following ADDITIVE modifications:

1st - Where my legs, calves, would sit when paddling with my feet on the nose.  I also felt I was compressing the foam when I would get on the board.  So I added Carbon further up-front on the rails and extended a triangle patch on either side.

2nd - I added front footstrap plates

3rd - After 30 sessions I notice cracked rails on the left side only.  This was a combination of 6 oz Carbon and 4 oz S-Glass.  I sanded OFF the rail, added 2" S-Glass and then 1" Kevlar tape.

Observations:  I have had sessions where I was out in horrific wind and chop and fell 30+ times.  One time I was halfway through and lost count and never caught a wave I assume I fell 50 times.  30 Sessions * 20+ falls per session is 600 times climbing on the board.  That wears the rail.  BUT I usually climbed on the left side.  So only the left rail was cracked.  I added the Kevlar, with Gorilla glue for wear protection.

The board with all those additions is 5 oz heavier.  Just the weight of the materials. NO WATER weight added. 

No other delaminations.  There are 2 minor dings that were in the 1.4 oz glass from Day 2.  I never patched them.  No propagation of delaminations around the dings.  In fact the only place that cracked or delamed, on the rails, were the EPOXY matrix.  The Gorilla Glue laminations are all holding perfectly.  The Boxes show NO signs of any wear. 

There is evidence that Gorilla Glue is superior to epoxy when it comes to laminating FIBER to FOAM. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 10:09:51 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #81 on: March 27, 2023, 10:12:41 AM »
Current Weight:  10 lbs 1.3 oz

This board in a surf bag weighs 13 lbs which is still lighter than virtually all boards @ 128 liters. 

Meaning that most boards have the board bag built ON TO THE BOARD permanently for ding prevention.

But I get to go to the beach and take off the 3 lbs of Unnecessary Bag weight.

Dontsink

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #82 on: March 27, 2023, 11:16:20 AM »
I dunno what impresses me more, how well such a minimalistic board is taking the wear or how many days in the water you get :)

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #83 on: March 27, 2023, 03:14:45 PM »
are you finding that you need/want the front footstrap?  I have been assuming that it wouldn't be needed on a downwind style board.  I mostly use mine on my "shortboard" for force pumping the board into a wave.  Seems like the takeoff action on a board like this is more about getting up to speed rather than pumping the board out of the water

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2023, 04:38:51 PM »
I have been using the board in waves as big as 7 to 8 foot faces.  Granted they are mushy, and soft but the takeoffs are pretty hot.  Especially when using an Axis 1300 and 450 P tail.  Those are the only foils I have been getting used to.

When my front foot is locked, forward in the strap, I have 100% confidence in the takeoff.  Also a strap helps to man-handle the board better with the big wings.

Add to this, surf amigo Josh, added a front strap to his Kalama.  He is convinced it helps him lift the front foot to better takeoff in Flat water.  I too would claim this benefit but am not as experienced as he is with the flat water takeoff. 

So the front strap:

1) Adds confidence on bigger wave takeoffs
2) Helps better control the board
3) Allows for upward pull on the board when going into Hop / Bounce mode for takeoff


My front strap has 13" between the bases.  This gives me ~ 8" of lateral play.  Meaning I can push my foot forward for takeoff and slide it back several inches to optimize pump mode. 

Here was a video from last weekend.  Josh taking off first, Kalama 7' 10" with Axis 1300.  Then Kyle, also on Axis 1300, homemade board 7' 6" x 120 liters @ 10.25 lbs.  Kyle's board was made from the same template as my board.  His has an EPS core, lighter, but then several layers more hot coat and lamination for waterproofing. 

This session was a "game changer" because the prone guys were all clumped on the inside relying on white water to take off.  Hence the "Unbelievable" comment from the peanut gallery of proners.  Many are resistant to using the paddle for takeoff.  They had first hand views of the benefits of longer, thinner boards.  In clean conditions you just takeoff wherever you want. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omr5ru758gA
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 04:43:04 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2023, 06:28:02 PM »
are you finding that you need/want the front footstrap?  I have been assuming that it wouldn't be needed on a downwind style board.  I mostly use mine on my "shortboard" for force pumping the board into a wave.  Seems like the takeoff action on a board like this is more about getting up to speed rather than pumping the board out of the water

Jon - I just spoke to Josh.  He said YOU taught him the trick of using the Front Foot Strap to lift the board up to take off sooner when you were both in Southern California.  He is using the exact same technique with his Kalama.  It all comes full circle. 

jondrums

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 894
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2023, 07:40:52 PM »
wow, watching Josh and Kyle taking off on nothing like that - I can see the game has changed again.  glad to hear the feedback that the footstrap is still useful, I'm totally sold on front footstrap but I don't have a flatwater/downwind rig.  Yet!

clay

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1138
    • View Profile
    • www.clayisland.com
    • Email
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2023, 02:20:46 PM »
Current Weight:  10 lbs 1.3 oz

This board in a surf bag weighs 13 lbs which is still lighter than virtually all boards @ 128 liters. 

Meaning that most boards have the board bag built ON TO THE BOARD permanently for ding prevention.

But I get to go to the beach and take off the 3 lbs of Unnecessary Bag weight.

Denton I am giving you more credit, the production boards close to that literage weigh 15-18+, so we are talking about a huge weight reduction, and reduction in materials.  Add to this most of the weight is under foot so the swing weight savings in the nose are extra huge.  I have found less nose weight on a 7' board to be night and day difference, I can only imagine how much more noticeable it is on an 8 foot board.
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOIE6FWr1SpWvbPJIIiEgog

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2023, 11:57:11 AM »
Next Board is being built.

6' 9" x 26" x 5" @ 119 liters.  Target weight 9 lbs 12 oz.

XPS Core:  Top 1" is 1.8 lbs per cubic foot.  The pink 2" x 2 slabs is Home Depot Foamular @ 1.5 lbs per cubic foot. 

My Sailfish has 40 sessions now.  There are some dents on the deck that are parrallel to eachother (?).  Meaning square stance, but I never stand square - KNEE dents.

Having fallen of the board at least 20+ times per session I estimate 800 remounts, kneeling and standing on the board.  That's a lot of knees. 

My rail on the left side is also showing constant wear.  I suspect this was from climbing on Over-and-Over.  The edge was NOT rounded enough.  I liked the square edge for control, but BAD, BAD, BAD for wear resistance.  Going to go for 1" Diameter on this new board. 

Also - I am going to use 2.2 oz Kevlar INSTEAD of 1.4 oz Glass on the bulk of the Nose and Tail.  Much better wear resistance at a similar weight.

PS: I hot wired the rails with a $38 Amazon hot-wire kit.  Worked great for rails.  I needed some help from our local 'shape-shack' to hot wire the nose rocker with a 30" wide wire and template. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 12:29:01 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
    • View Profile
Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2023, 12:02:33 PM »
My latest lamination was my best yet.

I added 2 patches:
1 along the centerline for stiffness under the "Cassette" area of the board.  This would be between the front and rear feet. 
2 Rail to Rail to prevent any roll, adding lateral stiffness

The Tracks will therefore have 2X 5.8 oz Carbon above them.  There are 10X carbon rods, 6 extending from Deck to Deck, and 4 running from the top deck to the bottom of the tracks.  Total weight of dowels 25 grams.

Each of patches weighed 38 grams (coincidentally).  I mixed up 2 batches of 50 grams of Epoxy, and 1 batch of 20 grams.   

I marked up where the laminations would go with a sharpy, then sanded the surface of the foam with 220 grit sandpaper.

I then:

1) Painted the surface of the XPS with the 20 grams of Epoxy.  I used ~ half the batch to wet the foam with a squeegee.  This ensured I would NOT have any dry spots under the carbon.

2) I wet out the 8" x 38" center patch on a table on WAX PAPER.  I used ~ 40 grams from the 1st 50 gram batch.  Wetting out on a hard surface permits better saturation through the fiber using a squeegee.  Then the whole piece of carbon, with the Wax paper is placed on top of the board.  At this point you can do a final alignment of the patch, then press the top of the wax paper to thoroughly compress the resin into the fiber.  Finally gently peel back the wax paper at a 180 degree angle.

3) I wet out the 14" x 21" patch again on wax paper on a table with ~ 40 grams of resin.  Applied the patch to the board, centered and removed the wax paper. 

I always add a touch more resin to the edges at the end, and look for any potential dry spots.  Bag and vacuum. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 12:15:57 PM by Beasho »

 


* Recent Posts

post Re: Sunova Faast Pro Allwater 14x27
[Classifieds]
gcs
Today at 01:22:14 PM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
AndiHL
April 17, 2024, 10:23:58 PM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
dietlin
April 17, 2024, 07:54:48 AM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
B-Walnut
April 16, 2024, 11:10:15 PM
post Re: Starboard Pro vs. Infinity Blurr v2, thoughts?
[SUP General]
finbox
April 16, 2024, 06:05:51 PM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
Tom
April 16, 2024, 04:41:33 PM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
Tom
April 16, 2024, 04:41:23 PM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
Dusk Patrol
April 16, 2024, 11:21:42 AM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
firesurf
April 16, 2024, 11:04:18 AM
post Re: Starboard Pro vs. Infinity Blurr v2, thoughts?
[SUP General]
SurfKiteSUP
April 16, 2024, 09:48:08 AM
post Re: SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
Badger
April 16, 2024, 06:37:12 AM
post Lahonawinds WIND HAWK-Inflatable Wingboard
[Classifieds]
kitesurferro
April 16, 2024, 05:12:26 AM
post SUP Longboard
[Gear Talk]
AndiHL
April 16, 2024, 12:40:25 AM
post SIC Raptor Foil and Board For Sale
[Classifieds]
addapost
April 15, 2024, 04:25:26 PM
post Re: Starboard Pro vs. Infinity Blurr v2, thoughts?
[SUP General]
SurfKiteSUP
April 15, 2024, 02:40:38 PM
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal