Author Topic: Ultralight Board Designs  (Read 10109 times)

tarquin

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2023, 12:58:07 PM »
The whole wing foiling thing was amazing.
 Got this wing thing its going to be awsome? No idiot.
 Got this foil thing? No it wont work. Yes plenty of other sports are doing it.
 Then like 10 years later you are where some sailing and foiling tech was 5 years ago.

sflinux

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2023, 10:04:17 PM »
The mast placement relative to the KD Maui tail looks close, so close that it doesn't look like you would hit the tail while pumping.  In a Progression Project interview with Kane, I seem to remember him saying that he likes simple structures in his boards as they are more predictable in a variety of conditions.
The GoFoil picture with the cutaway tail, the mast looks further up on the board, so much that it looks like the tail would hit the water when pumping.
How far do you put your mast from your tail?

Going back to the sub 10# goal of this project, is that to mainly minimize swing weight?  If so, couldn't you use a lighter density foam outside the the standing area, as that part of the board is just there for volume, when on the water.  I envision a board within a board, with the low density foam being unreinforced and replaceable with gorilla glue when damaged.
Quiver Shaped by: Joe Blair, Blane Chambers, Jimmy Lewis, Kirk McGinty, and Bob Pearson.
Me: 195#, 6'2"

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2023, 12:13:34 PM »
Going back to the sub 10# goal of this project, is that to mainly minimize swing weight?  If so, couldn't you use a lighter density foam outside the the standing area, as that part of the board is just there for volume, when on the water.  I envision a board within a board, with the low density foam being unreinforced and replaceable with gorilla glue when damaged.

We are calling it the "Casette" within the board.  Yes - Agreed 100% from my first post "Invest in the Foot area and the TRACKS.  but Don't over index on the TRACK reinforcement." 

Looks like this.  Consider everything but the Cassette sacrificial.  I am now looking at boards are realizing that they are designed for 1) Aesthetics and 2) 10,000 Dings.  Or just call it INFINITE dings. 

How many real dings do you get 5, maybe 10 over the period of 2 years.  Yet the entire structure is designed for DING prevention EVERYWHERE. 

I would estimate that boards add 2 - 5+ lbs from coatings to 1) Fill in the carbon corrugation 2) Wet out all the pin holes.  3) Give the board a nice GLASS clean finish

Current thinking:  Beef UP the Cassette area.  Then 1.4 oz glass Gorilla Glued to XPS.  Add more infrastructure to RAILS ~ 4 oz S-Glass or Carbon for structural stiffness and ding prevention, Nose (Dings) and Tail (Dings). 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 12:20:18 PM by Beasho »

finbox

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2023, 12:47:06 PM »
I feel like this has not been brought up in this discussion. As for the foil boxes a guy in Florida had it dialed in. No extra high density foam needed. Individual carbon wrap on the boxes that tie the top & bottom lam of the board together.
The guy in Florida also used 4 oz fiberglass with Innegra to make a really tough board. Composite Envision has 2 oz innegra listed on their website, but out of stock. one layer of 4 oz glass & 2 oz innegra would make a tough and light board. or just place the innegra at the nose, tail & rails for impact resistance. How about 2 oz fiberglass & 2 oz innegra - then carefully placed carbon reinforcements as needed.
I like the idea of using different densities of foam - Kings makes boards with 1 lb or 3/4 lb foam wrapped in 6oz & 4oz fiberglass - not ultralight but shows the light foam can work.
If I remember right didn't the Florida guy offer free ding repair for the first year?

surfcowboy

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2023, 12:57:58 PM »
"The Guy In FL" is DW or Dwight. He's posting here and he's a genius who I have copied mercilessly and with great success for 7 years lol.

Ignore his ideas at your own peril. I experiment only after I try his way. Seldom (never?) do I make things better.

jondrums

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2023, 05:41:18 PM »
I think the ultimate "cassette" concept would be a piece of prefabbed carbon/nomex honeycomb plate cut to the shape of the standing/footpad area - with a foilmount epoxied on the bottom of it.  NSI adhesive strap mounts and leash attachment if needed.

alone it would be the the ultimate dockstarting platform.  I expect it could be well under 4lbs with deckpad

Add to the underside closed cell foam "floatation" and hull shape. 

Holy shit is is expensive, but you'd only need one of these and could iterate through lots of shape/size boards.
https://dragonplate.com/carbon-fiber-nomex-honeycomb-core-075-x-24-x-36

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2023, 07:03:08 PM »
I go peanut butter now. Not runny. I do squeegee one fill coat on first and then sand it all off/flat.

Squeegee the microballoons and then sand with 220 or even 320 between applications. When I think I've got the pinholes all full I do one more application and then I spray it with primer which shows any last pinholes. Fill em and go, or paint.

If you don't wanna primer it you can rub some resin on it with a gloved hand. When Peter says lean he means lean.

By the second application there's almost no material going on. I can do the whole board with like an ounce of material.

I'm digging my results.

Can you, or anyone, further clarify this step.  My foil amigo is at:

9 lbs right now: 7' 6" Board x 21" @ 125 Liters 

1 lbs EPS, Full 6 oz Carbon around the entire board, 12" Divinycell stringers under the BOX, 1/8" Divinycell Sandwich under his feet with 4 oz Fiberglass below and 6 oz Carbon on Top.  Pretty bomber.

But he is paranoid about pinholes. 

He has put on one "hot coat" with microballoons and sanded. 

HOW DO YOU ISOLATE THE PINHOLES.
What is the Primer Method??

He is down the final sand and seal layer. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 07:10:56 PM by Beasho »

surfcowboy

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2023, 07:59:47 PM »
I end up doing 3 or so coats of the slurry. But it's all basically sanded off each time. You're just trying to fill all the pinholes which takes a few times. Then the last light spray of primer will show you if you got them all. If not, fill those and be done.

Adds zero weight. There is never truly a hot coat. Just fill coat, sand that and then slurry til the pinholes are gone. Why add 5-6 oz of resin? Because one thick coat is faster. Again we are back to production building vs custom for the lightest board and more time and money. This is partially why I build. We can do things in the garage you'd never want to pay someone to do.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2023, 04:22:49 AM »
HOW DO YOU ISOLATE THE PINHOLES.

Who gives a crap. You cannot ever identify a leak by looking.

You must leak test with an ultrasonic tester. You add vacuum to the board via the gore-tex vent bung. You will find leaks that are NOT VISIBLE PINHOLES. Proving just how critical using the leak tester is.

Tip, pressure wash (after sanding) the board with a garden hose before leak testing to remove any dust that might plug a leak point.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 04:54:22 AM by Dwight (DW) »

PonoBill

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2023, 08:40:44 PM »
An ultrasonic leak detector is a critical tool for me for vacuum bagging as well as leak detection in boards. You have to find the big leaks another way, but the little ones scream.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2023, 03:31:36 AM »
OK.  I have an ultrasonic tester but never figured out how to use it well.  Iím going to give it to Josh tomorrow. 

What about using something like Saran Wrap in conjunction with a vacuum to see if it grabs any where when place on the board ??

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2023, 05:22:21 AM »
Here is my setup. Itís very important to throw away the headset it comes with. You need reliable clear sound. Iím using this cheap $30 Sony headset. It works ten times better than the junk $2 headset it ships with.

I drilled a hole through the goretex plug and fit a plastic tube. It fits tight. No sealant required.

One single invisible leak anywhere on the board will make the detector scream loud and possibly confuse you. When you find the leak, cover with masking tape and continue the search.


SUPeter

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2023, 09:33:38 AM »
Spraying on a clear sealer coat of Rustoleum spray paint(can) was my final option on my last DW board. Prior to that just the very runny microballoon coat during some drastically falling temps, all sanded off. No leaks so far.

PonoBill

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2023, 06:00:03 PM »
That's interesting DW, I swapped out the headset too, but mostly because the fit was crappy. I used some decent Sony headphones I had laying around--they look a lot like yours except the plastic is silver-colored. And I made a very similar adapter, though I turned mine out of brass and threaded it. I don't have exactly the right threads--I have a huge tap and die collection from years of working on cars and motorcycles, but none of them fit the plastic plug perfectly, so I just picked the closest one. I can get a turn and a half before it starts feeling funky. So I made a thick gasket face to do the sealing. Oddly enough I found a bolt in my collection of unsorted, unidentified fasteners that screwed in perfectly. I don't have a die that fits that either, so I taped the bolt to my vacuum pump in case I ever feel ambitious enough to make an adapter out of it.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JohnnyTsunami

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2023, 08:45:24 PM »
Here is my setup. Itís very important to throw away the headset it comes with. You need reliable clear sound. Iím using this cheap $30 Sony headset. It works ten times better than the junk $2 headset it ships with.

I drilled a hole through the goretex plug and fit a plastic tube. It fits tight. No sealant required.

One single invisible leak anywhere on the board will make the detector scream loud and possibly confuse you. When you find the leak, cover with masking tape and continue the search.


Now THIS is the sort of tips I need! Unfortunately these things are expensive :(.

I've resorted to doing the microballoon finish, sanding perfectly smooth with some pinholes no doubt. Seems like mixing microballoons gets air in the mix. Then just do a resin only hotcoat (pigmented like the one below it and sand that flat and polish if you like. Should seal up very well for minimal weight gain. 

The only other thing is that if you have multiple layers of carbon/glass and you did a sealing microballoon coat of your board, you shouldn't have to worry. I'm neurotic now after my first board was laid up too dry and resulted in a major weight gain.

I have seen the aussie windsurf build video say he rubs on "porefill" that fills any pinholes, then it gets absorbed by the epoxy layer later. But I can't find any info on that stuff anywhere.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 09:40:43 PM by JohnnyTsunami »

 


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