Author Topic: Ultralight Board Designs  (Read 17131 times)

Fishman

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2023, 05:52:21 AM »
sflinux Thx
SupSurfMachine 9'9" longboard
SupSurfMachine  8'2" funboard

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2023, 09:26:02 AM »
Here is 1 board that inspired the XPS 'foamie' design for Foil boards.

The designer is hiding but he has had the board for 2 years and this is his current "go to" board for SUP foil surfing. I think he went:

1) Too heavy on the deck: It has 6 oz carbon on the entire top of the board
2) Painted too much on the bottom.  The paint was thick and therefore weighty
3) Boxes do not Extend with high denisity or structure Deck-to-Deck. BUT the Boxes haven't failed. Meaning either the XPS holds, or the infrastructure built around the boxes was strong enough.  I think the carbon dowels will cut the weight down significantly. 

XPS Core.  Carbon top deck.  Carbon Rails (1 peeled off).  8" Carbon strip down the middle from box to nose of board.  When it dings IT DOESN'T MATTER.

BUT most of the damage comes from loading into and out of the truck, or garage. 
 
The board weighs ~ 17 lbs.  6' 6" x 30" wide ~ 125 liters.   
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 09:29:02 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2023, 10:55:08 AM »
And the tail.  What should I do with the tail?

I am thinking of keeping the rails VERTICAL. 

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2023, 12:47:52 PM »
Regarding the tail, if you do the Kalama bevels, increasing towards the back, it makes the board pump great. Like a board with a kick tail, without having a kick tail.

It allows the tail to knife down into the water when pumping. No resistance.

SUPeter

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2023, 06:27:52 AM »
I like beveled rails or, in my case, flaring beveled rails especially towards the rear of board. This shape ejects water sideways, away from board during the hopping/slapping phase of the paddle up.  Vertical sides may allow more water to eventually settle on deck when tail is submerged.  Beveled sides also create a smaller hull surface and less surface drag on very bottom of hull when touching down at speed.  I also agree that the less volume you have in the very rear, the easier it will be to sink it into the water just prior to hopping.
    As far as vertical "posts", I use hollow carbon tubes,(arrow shafts), and not carbon rods(much heavier).  Hollow tubes allow you to stuff resin impregnated carbon tow down inside leaving the flared out fibers to attach to boxes, hull laminate or deck laminate.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 06:35:01 AM by SUPeter »

jondrums

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2023, 09:45:23 AM »
Just a thought - there is a chance that constructing this into the board integrally could potentially be a lighter overall solution to getting boxes in the board:
https://foilmount.com/products/foilmount-3-0-carbon

I haven't quick conceived of the overall solution and it would probably require a few steps of layup since this isn't sealed boxes, they're open on the inside.  But I'm generally thinking of a hybrid of the previously mentioned dowel system.  We could drill a series of holes in the recessed area of the foilmount and screw the dowels into the backside.  Then all of that could be glued into holes and a recess in the blank through to the deck area.  Add some foam on top of the recessed areas and laminate the board as normal. 

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2023, 10:14:21 AM »
Jondrums - Interesting concept and DEFINITELY Faster. 

It says it weighs 1 lbs.  I am hoping for 8 ounces for tracks and boxes BUT they are coming at the end of the week.

This thing could also be modular!!!!!!  FAST And Flexible.  Mmmmm

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2023, 10:17:11 AM »
What about square rails???   (edges)

Intuitively they seem bad BUT they could be:

1) Structurally stronger - A full box Structure
2) Better for standing on the deck.  You get the full deck vs. rounded edges you're falling off
3) On the bottom - Does the water care IF this is a diplacement hull designed to go 6 or 8 mph??

- Prone to dings BUT with XPS I am willing to take that.

I am realizing that boards are OVERBUILT because they anticipate the user and 10,000 dings.  If you are willing to take 5 or 8 dings then GO LIGHTER. 

PonoBill

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2023, 04:10:20 PM »
I had a board built with straight rails looking for max float at min size. Corky is an understatement. Plus any swell or chop from the side was unbearable. I gave the board back to the builder since I couldn't ride it. Yes, of course I paid for it, it was my idea.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2023, 05:22:56 PM »
Hard edges on the bottom, yes. Think McCoy.

Round or 45 bevel at least on the top unless you like bruises and painful tacos.

PonoBill

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2023, 11:02:13 PM »
I've used the carbon foilmounts a few times in experiments. they're damned nice, especially with the wizardhat hardware. I didn't expect them to be good, especially with boards that substantially reinforce to take the torque load of a foil. Surprise, surprise, they're pretty good. I did manage to delam a board with one, but that was an extreme example--a board that should never have a foil plate stuck on the bottom--a Wavestorm kids SUP board. It held together for a couple of weeks, which was about two weeks longer than I expected.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2023, 08:04:06 AM »
I had a board built with straight rails looking for max float at min size. Corky is an understatement. Plus any swell or chop from the side was unbearable. I gave the board back to the builder since I couldn't ride it. Yes, of course I paid for it, it was my idea.

Pono:  Can you comment on what type of board this was? SUP, Foil, Wing  . . . .?  Volume . . .?

Here is an example that Kane DeWilde has been riding. I am not sure who the kid holding the board is BUT the rails are DEAD VERTICAL. It is also super narrow ~ 18".
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 08:33:04 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2023, 08:08:05 AM »
I am thinking to make the tail like this FLAT tail (from the side) similar to this latest Kalama Skunk-Works Majine

https://youtu.be/vwbQdh8Rh8Y
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 08:11:21 AM by Beasho »

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2023, 10:59:12 AM »
I once had a wise engineering manager say to all of our team, until you understand it better than the guy who invented it, you better copy it.

I was talking to a fellow shaper on the beach recently. I suggested he try a Kalama style board. Instead, we waxed on about all his better ideas, without ever trying one.

tarquin

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Re: Ultralight Board Designs
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2023, 12:34:48 PM »
I had a board built with straight rails looking for max float at min size. Corky is an understatement. Plus any swell or chop from the side was unbearable. I gave the board back to the builder since I couldn't ride it. Yes, of course I paid for it, it was my idea.

Pono:  Can you comment on what type of board this was? SUP, Foil, Wing  . . . .?  Volume . . .?

Here is an example that Kane DeWilde has been riding. I am not sure who the kid holding the board is BUT the rails are DEAD VERTICAL. It is also super narrow ~ 18".

 I would say he is not pumping the board as much as some. Because he weighs sweet FA and has a nice HA foil. So not worried about sinking the tail.
 Again i dont foil.
But as foil and board design change there will always be a cross over point between foils and board shapes. And peoples skill?
 

 


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